Rhino Quadio Batch 5 for August 2024!

[BillSamm1]

From this series, did you get one of the "Promo Only" samplers in the denim wallet? Oh I'll have to dig mine out.

There were 2 versions of that sampler. One actual denim, and a 2nd run with the denim printed on the paperboard jacket.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Just an opinion but I think Audio Fidelity not grabbing more rock titles when they had the opportunity is what led to their death as a going concern. Fresh Air, Judy Collins, Laura Nyro, and Labelle and a Christmas album in surround was issued while Sony was open to licensing any quad to them (except for a few obvious things). AF also has access the Capitol Records quad masters, and did not jump on anything great in the rock dept. so AF did six titles of questionable merit, and had they done just three other rock titles in their place, things could have been different. Why did they not do BOC T&M, Nilsson’s big hit album, Miles Davis Birches Brew, or Edgar Winter’s major album? Or Mahavish Orch Nothingness. No, a Christmas album and Fresh Air instead. Judy Collins instead of platinum Frankenstein??? Don’t get me started. Oh I already am started. Never mind.

Before you 'jump the gun, Quicksrt ...some of those titles you mentioned as 'irrelevant' were 'relevant' to a lot of people. What might have done AF in was the $30K licensing fee PER DISC imposed by the majors for the privilege of releasing their albums not only in CD/STEREO but the added expense of the MultiChannel SACD layer.

And when AF proposed releasing the unreleased Elton John 5.1 remixes, UMG told them on the condition that ALL the existing Elton John 5.1 remixes be released as well. I can only imagine what a financial burden that would have been...especially since the existing EJ 5.1 SACDs were still available at ALL the major retailers at substantial discount!

NOT to mention, that AF Multichannel titles were also available at discount at all the major retailers....unlike MoFi and Analogue Productions! I paid on the average $18~20 for an AF multichannel SACD which listed at the time for the same price as those other two reissue companies!

But we have AF to thank [profusely] for reviving hi res multichannel releases which I believe kickstarted the renaissance in surround we are experiencing to this very day!

 

[quicksrt]

There were 2 versions of that sampler. One actual denim, and a 2nd run with the denim printed on the paperboard jacket.

I dug mine out last night. I got the real denim with patch sewn on front.

The black leather R&B one is a 2CD set with pages of notes. It’s pretty fancy.

I think I’ll keep these since they are so cool, take up little space and do not fetch that much when sold used.

 

[key_wiz]

Just an opinion but I think Audio Fidelity not grabbing more rock titles when they had the opportunity is what led to their death as a going concern. Fresh Air, Judy Collins, Laura Nyro, and Labelle and a Christmas album in surround was issued while Sony was open to licensing any quad to them (except for a few obvious things). AF also had access the Capitol Records quad masters, and did not jump on anything great in the rock dept.

So AF did six titles of questionable merit, and had they done just three other rock titles in their place, things could have been different. Why did they not do BOC T&M, Nilsson’s big hit album, Miles Davis Birches Brew, or Edgar Winter’s major album? Or Mahavish Orch Nothingness. No, a Christmas album and Fresh Air instead. Judy Collins instead of platinum Frankenstein??? Don’t get me started. Oh I already am started. Never mind.

Not all licensing from Sony was the same I would imagine. They probably went with what they thought would pencil out.

 

[BillSamm1]

We can only hope that Sony, BMG, and others are watching the success of Rhino, SDE, and DV very closely. There's so much great multichannel music in storage that could (and should) be reissued, as well as new mixes to be made. The technology has finally caught up to the idea of Quad with 5.1 and Atmos. Strike while the iron is hot! Don't wait until we're all too old and deaf to enjoy it!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Not all licensing from Sony was the same I would imagine. They probably went with what they thought would pencil out.

Thankfully, Dutton Vocalion must have a fabulous relationship with SONY or else they could never EVER release SONY/RCA QUAD SACD two~fers for US$16!

If ONLY Audio Fidelity had that sweetheart deal!

 

[key_wiz]

Thankfully, Dutton Vocalion must have a fabulous relationship with SONY or else they could never EVER release SONY/RCA QUAD SACD two~fers for US$15!

If ONLY Audio Fidelity had that sweetheart deal!

Who knows the details. Maybe Sony realized they were charging too much after AF deal. Maybe AF was hampered by their insistence to release “audiophile” product at premium prices.

 

[key_wiz]

We can only hope that Sony, BMG, and others are watching the success of Rhino, SDE, and DV very closely. There's so much great multichannel music in storage that could (and should) be reissued, as well as new mixes to be made. The technology has finally caught up to the idea of Quad with 5.1 and Atmos. Strike while the iron is hot! Don't wait until we're all too old and deaf to enjoy it!

I think we’ve reached an inflection point where not only has the technology caught up, but physical sales of regular CDs/LPs is so small that suddenly those 2500-5000 limited pressings to our little niche look pretty sweet to them whereas 5-10 years ago they still thought they couldn’t be bothered.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Who knows the details. Maybe Sony realized they were charging too much after AF deal. Maybe AF was hampered by their insistence to release “audiophile” product at premium prices.

Ironically, the majors can get hundreds of thousands of dollars just to license a single HIT song for a TV commercial! I just think D~V has a guardian angel at SONY because they could never otherwise afford to offer those QUAD SACD discs at bargain basement prices MOST especially in inflationary 2024!

 

[key_wiz]

Ironically, the majors can get hundreds of thousands of dollars just to license a single HIT song for a TV commercial! I just think D~V has a guardian angel at SONY because they could never otherwise afford to offer those QUAD SACD discs at bargain basement prices MOST especially in inflationary 2024!

I’m not the bean counter but I think AF hurt themselves by still operating at a 1990s business model when regular CDs cost $15 and you could call yours “audiophile” and charge $30. AF charged $30 a piece to release two EWF titles. DV charged $15 for a two-fer of two better (much more successful) titles. Of course, they didn’t package them in a special individually numbered slipcase and call them “audiophile” and pay extra for some supposedly hot-shot mastering engineer to help sell them to the audiophile crowd. Did they actually pay that much less for the licensing?

 

[quicksrt]

Before you 'jump the gun, Quicksrt ...some of those titles you mentioned as 'irrelevant' were 'relevant' to a lot of people. What might have done AF in was the $30K licensing fee PER DISC imposed by the majors for the privilege of releasing their albums not only in CD/STEREO but the added expense of the MultiChannel SACD layer.

And when AF proposed releasing the unreleased Elton John 5.1 remixes, UMG told them on the condition that ALL the existing Elton John 5.1 remixes be released as well. I can only imagine what a financial burden that would have been...especially since the existing EJ 5.1 SACDs were still available at ALL the major retailers at substantial discount!

NOT to mention, that AF Multichannel titles were also available at discount at all the major retailers....unlike MoFi and Analogue Productions! I paid on the average $18~20 for an AF multichannel SACD which listed at the time for the same price as those other two reissue companies!

But we have AF to thank [profusely] for reviving hi res multichannel releases which I believe started the renaissance in surround we are experiencing to this very day!

The $30,000 tab on a title which AF licensed was the total cost for the first run licensed, pressed, and delivered in shrink wrap of 2,000 units. I wrote about my lunch with Marshall from AF when he told me this after I asked him. He also told me that Edgar Winter's hit album was not considered for release simply because it had been out on SACD before. He said there are collectors of DSD mastered titles (AF's then major market). Once it is out on DSD AF will not touch it. MFSL had EW Group out 10 years prior. Then AF released other titles which had already been out on DSD, or the surround mix had already been out. I jokingly called Marshall a liar. Aerosmith were off the table - not because they were not available, but because the fee was in fact way up there per album. So there are superstars who demand big advance fees. But none of the albums in my previous post I mention are those artists' albums.

Btw, the lunch I had with Marshall was at a Hollywood cantina on Hollywood Blvd. We talked for 2.5 hours about the quad program at AF. I often find myself at these Los Angeles record and audio events, parties, premieres, etc. I do things that put me in these places out of interest. Like get this, speaking of Hollywood, I took a temp job at Capitol Records in the promotion dept. - the Hollywood Tower on Vine street just so I could go in there and look out from the top floor of this historical building where the Beatles probably looked out. It was great! Then sometimes even find myself talking to the president of the company or head of A&R. My interest is genuine and I think they see that. So then I sometimes get the invite to a lunch or an LA listening event. Of course I accept.

 

[Dynamic Editor]

Not all licensing from Sony was the same I would imagine. They probably went with what they thought would pencil out.

It would explain why the quad of Muscle of Love by Alice Cooper was issued instead of the far better and more popular Billion Dollar Babies. Not Sony, but still.

Plus, with Audio Fidelity not having the prestige of Rhino Records (nor a competent art department for their cardboard sleeves), them recouping profits would be much more difficult.

 

[quicksrt]

It would explain why the quad of Muscle of Love by Alice Cooper was issued instead of the far better and more popular Billion Dollar Babies. Not Sony, but still.

No, B$B had already been out on Audio Fidelity disc. So they went for a new title not previously touched by the company. They could have grabbed the B$B album for quad, but were thinking maybe next time on that one.

Another missed opportunity for quad on AF.

 

[Dynamic Editor]

No, B$B had already been out on Audio Fidelity disc. So they went for a new title not previously touched by the company. They could have grabbed the B$B album for quad, but were thinking maybe next time on that one.

Another missed opportunity for quad on AF.

But they didn't touch the quad in the first place, which says something, no? Why not reach for the quad unless they think it's not worth the cost?

 

[key_wiz]

The $30,000 tab on a title which AF licensed was the total cost for the first run licensed, pressed, and delivered in shrink wrap of 2,000 units. I wrote about my lunch with Marshall from AF when he told me this after I asked him. He also told me that Edgar Winter's hit album was not considered for release simply because it had been out on SACD before. He said there are collectors of DSD mastered titles (AF's then major market). Once it is out on DSD AF will not touch it. MFSL had EW Group out 10 years prior. Then AF released other titles which had already been out on DSD, or the surround mix had already been out. I jokingly called Marshall a liar. Aerosmith were off the table - not because they were not available, but because the fee was in fact way up there per album. So there are superstars who demand big advance fees. But none of the albums in my previous post I mention are those artists' albums.

Btw, the lunch I had with Marshall was at a Hollywood cantina on Hollywood Blvd. We talked for 2.5 hours about the quad program at AF. I often find myself at these Los Angeles record and audio events, parties, premieres, etc. I do things that put me in these places out of interest. Like get this, speaking of Hollywood, I took a temp job at Capitol Records in the promotion dept. - the Hollywood Tower on Vine street just so I could go in there and look out from the top floor of this historical building where the Beatles probably looked out. It was great! I often find myself talking to the president of the company or head of A&R. My interest is genuine and I think they see that. So then I sometimes get the invite to a lunch or an LA listening event. Of course I accept.

I can't imagine there is any way that it is costing DV $30,000 per title.

Are they paying less for licensing? Perhaps. But they also pay less by having the mastering engineer being the guy who owns/runs the company and not some "name" they put on the cover, and by not selling a bunch of other BS like "24K gold disc", "from the original master tapes", fancy jewel cases and individually numbered sleeves. They just sell the music which sounds damned good at an affordable price.

 

[quicksrt]

But they didn't touch the quad in the first place, which says something, no? Why not reach for the quad unless they think it's not worth the cost?

The previous Alice Cooper titles were issued by AF just before they decided to begin adding surround layers to many of the releases. They were in the stereo only business for most of their existence.

 

[gvl_guy]

A lot if the fun of this is speculating what might be coming and expressing our want lists, and not knowing for sure what’s coming next. But at least with the Quadio series they planned it out quarterly and have stuck to that time frame. So we get to anticipate the releases knowing about when to expect them. This surely beats waiting and not knowing if anything is coming at all.

We also know what was originally mixed in quad for Warner Records. We’re hot on the trail here!

The fun part is also those unexpected releases - stuff that we never expected in the Rhino world. Like Grunt material. Or War! Who saw those coming? That's what really makes the speculation even more fun!

 

[gvl_guy]

Two random thoughts after reading this string.

1) I wonder if it benefits Rhino to release, for example, the James Taylor or Carly Simon albums one at a time or waiting for a box set? Neither has been celebrated like Joni in recent times. It would keep folks coming back for more if we know other JT or CS releases after a first one. Personally, I'd prefer a box set, especially Carly.

2) When I did a search to see how much $25 (the cost for a Rhino Quadio) would have been in 1974, it was $4.20. Who could buy a vinyl quad album or Q8 tape back in 1974 for $4?
It's a better deal today than back then! And it's the stereo and quad versions!

 

[quicksrt]

The fun part is also those unexpected releases - stuff that we never expected in the Rhino world. Like Grunt material. Or War! Who saw those coming? That's what really makes the speculation even more fun!

Very true. I was of course surprised that those two arrived and arrived delighted as everyone they would nice and early in the series relaunch. And it does promise more things we have not "yet" considered possible. There will be a few more rabbits pulled out of hats before this is over I think.

 

[Dynamic Editor]

The previous Alice Cooper titles were issued by AF just before they decided to begin adding surround layers to many of the releases. They were in the stereo only business for most of their existence.

Thanks for the clarification!