Rip Blu-ray

[AYanguas]

LFE (Low Frequency Emitter) is the techy term for subwoofer channel.

No.

LFE is "Low Frequency Effects"

It is an additional discrete channel content that was conceived first for Film sound to put there the extra Low bass of the Effects such as explosions and the like, to avoid send that ultrabass content to the "normal" channels.

When the 5.1 home cinema appeared in the 90's It inherited the concept to have Sound of the Films at home with the help of a single SUBwoofer speaker that was capable of reproducing the Low bass from the LFE Channel.

BUT...... Music has never needed the LFE Channel. Music has no Low Frequency Effects like the Films. Well, some electronics or organs may have it, but that would be an exception. If you wanted good music bass reproduction, obviously you needed good full range speakers.

With the beginning of surround, The Quad 4.0, no LFE Channel was ever needded. It was music... Not Films.

BUT... People at home had Cheap 5.1 systems for Films, and when music was mixed for surround for them, they needed a SUBwoofer for the bass, because the rest of speakers were small not full range. Enough for Films, but poor for music.

THEN... the need of bass management for the current home consumer to listen surround music with some degree of quality.

THEN... Mixing or Mastering music in 5.1, puting content in the LFE Channel, because It is there, and because the end user does not know how to configure well the bass management, and, at least, some bass Will go to the SUB If the LFE Channel has content.

5.0 or 5.1 with silent LFE for compatibility is what has been debated many times for MUSIC.

DTS, Dolby, Atmos, Auro-3D Inherited from Films , use LFE content for MUSIC. Unless mastered with silent LFE.

360 Reality Audio, conceived only for Music, does not use at all the LFE Channel.

 

[mandrix]

Unless I really crank the sub, it more or less just blends in where I have it's output set.
If you read the AVSForum, some of these guys have multiple subs of incredible size. Don't need it myself, but some like music that way. Or movies.

 

[jimfisheye]

No.

LFE is "Low Frequency Effects"

Take it up with Dolby I guess. I'm just the messenger here!

I see it in most labeling. Monkey see monkey do.

I agree with your comment that a LFE is not needed for music mixes. I'd extend that opinion to "Not needed for any mix!" here in the digital age.

It made sense for movie soundtrack mixes back in the analog tape days. Low frequencies push the levels. If you wanted to make a big rumble sound effect like a semi truck pulling up right next to you, you'd end up having to lower the level of the whole mix to be able to put that element in without just clipping or compressing it so much to destroy it. Turning the level down far enough would lead to tape hiss over the whole thing. So the LFE channel was born.

Perhaps a little redundant in the digital era but what the heck. Nothing wrong with a dedicated subwoofer channel! I mean... outside of the confusion over dealing with it in speaker managed systems and it apparently being impossible to explain this to average consumers!

This is all surmountable for anyone interested! You can dial in your system to calibration and play commercial released mixes and hear them 1:1 as intended.

 

[AYanguas]

Unless I really crank the sub, it more or less just blends in where I have it's output set.
If you read the AVSForum, some of these guys have multiple subs of incredible size. Don't need it myself, but some like music that way. Or movies.

Music or movies Sound are perceived by the auditive system.
But there are some that enjoy perceiving It by the whole body vía Air pressure or vía the furniture.

I understand It. If you invest in a home theater you want/need to sound "better" than in a theater.

 

[jimfisheye]

Unless I really crank the sub, it more or less just blends in where I have it's output set.
If you read the AVSForum, some of these guys have multiple subs of incredible size. Don't need it myself, but some like music that way. Or movies.

They're intentionally altering the mix to taste.
I might do that too sometimes! Not with skewing the playback system though. Give me a DAW app and I'm jumping in with both feet.

Isn't checking out a mix/master 1:1 with how it was intended to be delivered a thing? I get having opinions and wanting to alter things sometimes but don't most people want to at least hear it as intended (for good or bad) first? Seems not! That surprises me.

There's a little bit of a blurred line...
Old school hi-fi systems left some "final mastering" to the end consumer. It was not possible to setup perfectly calibrated systems like it is today and there was more fast and loose winging it going on sometimes. You'd just work the tone controls and it was expected that different recordings would have to be tweaked. Some people still do this and don't consider that there's a 1:1 calibration that can be setup where you can genuinely reproduce a recording.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Take it up with Dolby I guess. I'm just the messenger here!

I see it in most labeling. Monkey see monkey do.
.

Low-frequency effects - Wikipedia.

 

[par4ken]

Ripping "Soft Cell - Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret" went fine with just AnyDVD-HD and DVD Audio Extractor. Title 1 is the bed and Title 2 the top. I was able to downmix the bed to 4.0 with Foobar and everything plays fine.

In the process I have confused myself over the differance between BL and BR and SL and SR!

With my Oppo I have to set it up for side speakers rather than back or nothing plays from the rear in 5.1. That would indicate that quad is encoded as L, R, Sl and SR. My rips are actually LF, RF, BL,BR. and play fine on the computer as well as the Oppo. I remember in the past having a rip of something that was coded with SL and SR and it wouldn't play the back channels on the computer until I used Foobar to reassigned the channels as BL and BR.

I went back and re-ripped "America" to wav this time so that I can check properties and low and behold the back channels are coded as SL and SR! That was my compatibility problem all along! Reassigning as BL and BR everything works!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Ripping "Soft Cell - Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret" went fine with just AnyDVD-HD and DVD Audio Extractor. Title 1 is the bed and Title 2 the top.

Huh?

 

[par4ken]

Huh?

What do you mean Huh??

Rip title 2 and see for yourself, not a lot up there! Just little bits that would feed the top speakers. The main mix "the bed" is obviously under title1.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I don't have the disc. But its Atmos right? How can the height channels be authored as a different title than the 7.1 bed?

 

[par4ken]

Yes i

I don't have the disc. But its Atmos right? How can the height channels be authored as a different title than the 7.1 bed?

It is Atmos and that is how it shows up using DVD Audio Extractor! Makes some sense to me the bed is really a stand alone file. The tops are added to it. They two show up as separate titles when you rip the disc. It obviously won't show two separate titles on playback.

Most often DVD's and Blu-rays show multiple titles (when ripping), a bit confusing figuring out which one you need to rip!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Yes i

It is Atmos and that is how it shows up using DVD Audio Extractor!

What's the point of that I wonder? Who would listen to stray height channels?

 

[par4ken]

What's the point of that I wonder? Who would listen to stray height channels?

Obviously you wouldn't. It's just how the disc is authored, I guess.

 

[par4ken]

Ripping the SDE Surround Series discs and the rears are encoded as BL and BR. The Quadios are SL and SR. The problem that I was having is due to that difference!

 

[HomerJAU]

Ripping "Soft Cell - Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret" went fine with just AnyDVD-HD and DVD Audio Extractor. Title 1 is the bed and Title 2 the top.

That can’t by right. No BD player can play two titles at the same time. Title 1 must contain the Atmos stream. Many applications show this a Atmos TrueHD 7.1 but internally it’s the full self contained mix.You should use MediaInfo (free) to give you the full codec information.

Interesting about your quad channel masking. Another user here on QQ has the opposite solution and needs ‘sides’ not ‘back’ to play correctly.

 

[HomerJAU]

… Makes some sense to me the bed is really a stand alone file. The tops are added to it.

You are wrong. Atmos is in a single stream and can be played from a single file (mp4 or m4a ).

 

[par4ken]

That can’t by right. No BD player can play two titles at the same time. Title 1 must contain the Atmos stream. Many applications show this a Atmos TrueHD 7.1 but internally it’s the full self contained mix.You should use MediaInfo (free) to give you the full codec information.

Interesting about your quad channel masking. Another user here on QQ has the opposite solution and needs ‘sides’ not ‘back’ to play correctly.

Rip the disc to see for yourself! That is the way it shows up in DVD Audio Extractor! Play the tracks and decide for yourself! Title1 is obviously the "bed", it can't be anything else. This disc is Atmos only!

Maybe the full Atmos mix is somehow contained in Title 2, I don't know about that!

 

[par4ken]

Interesting about your quad channel masking. Another user here on QQ has the opposite solution and needs ‘sides’ not ‘back’ to play correctly.

What confuses me about this is that 5.1 and quad rips have almost always been coded as BL and BR. I have never had trouble playing them on a computer with a four channel sound card.

Look at the Matrix Mixer in Foobar and (channel order) BL and RR comes before SL and SR but after C and Lfe.

When I set up my Oppo to play with four speakers it didn't work when set to front and back speakers, I had to use front and side. I still find that odd. Without back speakers sound must be sent to the sides, which makes sense but it doesn't seem to work the other way around!

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Rip the disc to see for yourself! That is the way it shows up in DVD Audio Extractor! Play the tracks and decide for yourself! Title1 is obviously the "bed", it can't be anything else. This disc is Atmos only!

Maybe the full Atmos mix is somehow contained in Title 2, I don't know!

I ripped my Blu-ray Audio disc using MakeMKV's 'back-up' option... There's no weird separate bed/atmos tracks here!

 

[HomerJAU]

Rip the disc to see for yourself! That is the way it shows up in DVD Audio Extractor! Play the tracks and decide for yourself! Title1 is obviously the "bed", it can't be anything else. This disc is Atmos only!

DVDAE shows the disc structure. You interpreted the contents incorrectly.

Prove this for yourself: Rip the Title 1 Atmos True stream to MKV and play it. All channels/objects are there (just like every other Atmos BD ever authored). Atmos is delivered in a single stream.