RUSH Moving Pictures 40th Anniversary edition (with Richard Chycki Dolby Atmos mix)

[edisonbaggins]

I’m not talking technically. I’m talking market acceptance and utilization.

In that case, "no".

 

[EricKalet]

Hasn’t Dolby TrueHD been a clear 2nd in that two man race though?

And while Dolby Vision may be the technical winner in that particular battle, so was Betamax its battle.

I found this, but it is a bit older, last updated 2019 apparently.

It does demonstrate that DTS-HD MA is the 2nd most widely used codec on blu ray as of 2019.
http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Is this latest discussion about lossless audio stream formats authored onto 'music' discs or lossless audio stream formats authored onto 'movie' discs?

 

[EricKalet]

Excellent. I mean, that's the bottom line, right?
If the surround experience hasn't improved, no purchase necessary for many folks reading this.

MLP... vs. Atmos

What can I say...the comparison opened my eyes...after listening to both the MLP and the Apple Music Atmos, I am 100 percent confident that the Atmos mix on AM right now is an ENTIRELY NEW from scratch rendering by Chycki. And he has exceeded what is on the dvd-a by lightyears. The Atmos is just more room filling, imaging is much better and just draws me in to the music, like I'm there with the band as they play through MP. Bass improved, hits better, deeper. Crisper guitars and keyboards. Overall the Atmos is brighter, maybe cleaner is a better word, that could also be the mastering differences from some 10+ years ago...

To the point, I might not listen to the dvd-a again and I'm now on the edge about somehow getting the physical blu ray atmos when it comes out. Just the sound of $300 to just get that blu ray is so painful!! But I bet ... if it sounds much different/better right now on AM Atmos, how will the physical disc sound? I have to think, it will likely take the sonics to the next level with the additional bandwidth.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The Atmos is just more room filling, imaging is much better and just draws me in to the music, like I'm there with the band as they play through MP. Bass improved, hits better, deeper. Crisper guitars and keyboards. Overall the Atmos is brighter, maybe cleaner is a better word, that could also be the mastering differences from some 10+ years ago...

Wow, I had a totally different experience. To be sure, its a different mix, and possibly more discrete. But the difference in overall fidelity was in favor of the 5.1 Blu-ray for me. Maybe I need to go listen again. Its still only the two tracks in Atmos on AM so far, correct?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Not to my ears. I often prefer the True HD option, for albums where both are present.

Perhaps because DOLBY TRUE HD is the equivalent based on Meridian's MLP DVD~A technology!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Wow, I had a totally different experience. To be sure, its a different mix, and possibly more discrete. But the difference in overall fidelity was in favor of the 5.1 Blu-ray for me. Maybe I need to go listen again. Its still only the two tracks in Atmos on AM so far, correct?

All 7 tracks are playing back in Atmos. Around 10 to 12 db difference between TS/Limelight and the other 5 tracks though. Something whacky with the mastering, so far, to say the least. Have your volume control ready!!!

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Perhaps because DOLBY TRUE HD is the equivalent based on Meridian's MLP DVD~A technology!

The 'packing' is more or less the same but the multi-channel lossless audio streams on DVD-A are LPCM...

 

[himey]

MLP... vs. Atmos

What can I say...the comparison opened my eyes...after listening to both the MLP and the Apple Music Atmos, I am 100 percent confident that the Atmos mix on AM right now is an ENTIRELY NEW from scratch rendering by Chycki. And he has exceeded what is on the dvd-a by lightyears. The Atmos is just more room filling, imaging is much better and just draws me in to the music, like I'm there with the band as they play through MP. Bass improved, hits better, deeper. Crisper guitars and keyboards. Overall the Atmos is brighter, maybe cleaner is a better word, that could also be the mastering differences from some 10+ years ago...

To the point, I might not listen to the dvd-a again and I'm now on the edge about somehow getting the physical blu ray atmos when it comes out. Just the sound of $300 to just get that blu ray is so painful!! But I bet ... if it sounds much different/better right now on AM Atmos, how will the physical disc sound? I have to think, it will likely take the sonics to the next level with the additional bandwidth.

Do you have the Tidal link?

 

[marcb]

Not a real good analogy, since DV has already won its hearts-and-minds battle over HDR10+.

You just described why it is a good analogy.

It hasn’t won the battle over HDR10 though…which was my point. HDR10+ wasn’t even in my mind because it’s barely in the race right now.

Again, I’m not making any qualitative assessments. Or projecting the future.

 

[marcb]

I found this, but it is a bit older, last updated 2019 apparently.

It does demonstrate that DTS-HD MA is the 2nd most widely used codec on blu ray as of 2019.
http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
View attachment 76596

Thank you for finding some data. It appears to confirm what I thought about DTS-HD MA vs Dolby TrueHD.

Dolby Digital at 4:1 vs DTS surprises me though.

But there is probably quite a bit of overlap in that data.

For example, maybe I’m a dummy, but what do they mean by “lossless”? Is that just the aggregate of the lossless codecs? That math doesn’t really work. Or is it the undefined lossless?? And I would guess the vast majority of DTSHDMA & Dolby TrueHD are also 5.1.

 

[cdheer]

You just described why it is a good analogy.

It hasn’t won the battle over HDR10 though…which was my point. HDR10+ wasn’t even in my mind because it’s barely in the race right now.

Again, I’m not making any qualitative assessments. Or projecting the future.

Agreed about HDR10+; it's more HD-DVD than Betamax. But then, I don't see DV and HDR10 as competing standards. Also, I'd argue DV has won; you can't buy a non-Samsung 4K TV without DV, can you? If they exist, they're very rare and probably only sold by some old US appliance brand that is now owned by a private equity firm based in the tiny republic of Togo. (+10 points if you're old enough to get that reference.) And while DV may not be the majority standard for UHD, it certainly seems to be on non-Amazon streaming content.

 

[srbjab]

I've always been fascinated by the Dolby versus DTS question, but unbiased, definitive comparison studies seem hard to come by. Probably not surprising given the massive amount of money (and politics) involved. From what I've seen for movie soundtracks, Dolby Atmos is definitely outpacing DTS:X, but Dolby TrueHD seems to lag behind DTS-HD Master Audio in popularity.

For music it seemed like a different story. Until the recent push for Dolby Atmos, it seemed like all forms of DTS were far more popular with consumers and content providers than most forms of Dolby, but again definitive comparisons are scarce. And upmixing 2 channel music into multichannel adds yet another set of variables. On my system using a Yamaha Pre/Pro, I very much prefer the Dolby Surround upmixer over the DTS Neural:X upmixer.

My guess is we may never have a definitive answer, so until then - trust your ears.

 

[marcb]

Agreed about HDR10+; it's more HD-DVD than Betamax. But then, I don't see DV and HDR10 as competing standards. Also, I'd argue DV has won; you can't buy a non-Samsung 4K TV without DV, can you? If they exist, they're very rare and probably only sold by some old US appliance brand that is now owned by a private equity firm based in the tiny republic of Togo. (+10 points if you're old enough to get that reference.) And while DV may not be the majority standard for UHD, it certainly seems to be on non-Amazon streaming content.

How many - even late model TV’s - have DV capability which don’t have HDR capability? Not many. The other way around has to be more common.

Is DV actually the standard on non-amazon streaming services as you claim? Some services don’t even offer it yet. Is there any service which offers DV titles which doesn’t offer HDR titles? And many titles of each are there? I think HDR is still - as of now - the standard. And from the reading I do, many people don’t even know or understand the hoops they need to jump through to actually watch it.

 

[marcb]

I've always been fascinated by the Dolby versus DTS question, but unbiased, definitive comparison studies seem hard to come by. Probably not surprising given the massive amount of money (and politics) involved. From what I've seen for movie soundtracks, Dolby Atmos is definitely outpacing DTS:X, but Dolby TrueHD seems to lag behind DTS-HD Master Audio in popularity.

For music it seemed like a different story. Until the recent push for Dolby Atmos, it seemed like all forms of DTS were far more popular with consumers and content providers than most forms of Dolby, but again definitive comparisons are scarce. And upmixing 2 channel music into multichannel adds yet another set of variables. On my system using a Yamaha Pre/Pro, I very much prefer the Dolby Surround upmixer over the DTS Neural:X upmixer.

My guess is we may never have a definitive answer, so until then - trust your ears.

I specifically chose Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Vision where Dolby was not the clear market leader. IMO the battle is basically over with regard to the TrueHD. The battle is still underway with DV (although it is clearly way ahead of HDR10+).

Again, I’m not saying Dolby isn’t the biggest gorilla in their sector. They are. I’m just saying they haven’t won every battle - including a few big ones. No more, no less.

 

[EricKalet]

Wow, I had a totally different experience. To be sure, its a different mix, and possibly more discrete. But the difference in overall fidelity was in favor of the 5.1 Blu-ray for me. Maybe I need to go listen again. Its still only the two tracks in Atmos on AM so far, correct?

The entire album is in Atmos. Overall fidelity I could really lean either way. There was a discernible difference and it really seemed to be a brightness factor for AM. No doubt the dvd-a MLP is fantastic sound quality, but I'm leaning to the new mastering as a main factor in more crisp, cleaner sound.

 

[EricKalet]

Do you have the Tidal link?

No, I only have Apple Music.

 

[cdheer]

How many - even late model TV’s - have DV capability which don’t have HDR capability? Not many. The other way around has to be more common.

I think you would struggle to find a current model TV that didn't have both.

Is DV actually the standard on non-amazon streaming services as you claim? Some services don’t even offer it yet. Is there any service which offers DV titles which doesn’t offer HDR titles? And many titles of each are there? I think HDR is still - as of now - the standard. And from the reading I do, many people don’t even know or understand the hoops they need to jump through to actually watch it.

Except HDR10 and DV aren't exactly competitors, except maybe in the same way that DVD and Blu-Ray are. I'm not making a qualitative judgement there; static vs dynamic HDR is a not-insignificant difference. I mentioned 10+ before because DV and HDR10+ are more like VHS/Betamax, in the sense that they are two different implementations of roughly the same thing. HDR10 is the "fallback" whenever dynamic HDR isn't possible. If you get an UHD disc that has DV, but your display doesn't, it'll fall back to HDR10 as well.

Are there streaming services that offer HDR10 but not DV (aside from Amazon)? Certainly none of the major ones that I can think of off the top of my head. Plenty offer both, but I think it's telling that on those, if your TV/streamer is capable of both, you get DV.

Sorry, I've dragged the thread off topic. My apologies. marcb, if you'd like to take this to PM (or start a thread in whatever spot makes sense), let me know; I'm certainly enjoying the discussion.

 

[AYanguas]

Do you have the Tidal link?

There is no Moving Pictures in Atmos in Tidal (yet?) . At least in Tidal Spain.

 

[GOS]

Regarding the deluxe box set...yeah, yeah, I know.

Popmarket has it listed for $249.79, with free US shipping.....today only. For reference, with tax for me, would be $265.40
https://www.popmarket.com/rush-moving-pictures-40th-anniversary/602435876405
Also, I now see importCD has it listed, only at a higher price... $270.27 (that doesn't include shipping or tax)
https://www.importcds.com/moving-pictures-40th-anniversary/602435876405
Deep Discount has it listed for $261.81 and when I take it to checkout, I get a total of $282.41 shipped.
https://www.deepdiscount.com/rush-moving-pictures-40th-anniversary/602435876405