Thompson Twins - Into The Gap blu ray audio #29 in the SDE series

[Leahcim1402]

There's something odd happening when I play the (proper) instrumental mix and then try to switch to the original stereo mix - selecting a track from the menu takes me to the instrumental mix of said track, NOT the original stereo mix. I have to press "play album" to get out of the instrumentals. This doesn't happen when I go from the instrumental mixes to the 2024 mixes, or from the 2024 mixes to the original stereo mix.

Anyone else have this issue?

I typically rip 5.1 music from BRD and stream (via Roon) using my Nucleus+ (the disk's often on a shelf thereafter technically un-played).
Transport stream file 0014.ts (in the BDMV/STREAM folder) can be opened using various codecs including 5.1 DTS and 5.1 ac3. Interestingly the DTS variant of 'Doctor Doctor' is instrumental only, however ac3 version has vocals.
So there is a 5.1 version of the song on the disk somewhere, not sure if it's accessible from the menu?
Despite pi** poor authoring it's a great sounding effort ;-)

 

[Nimbatus]

I only got to listen to this album this morning. As I'm "limited" to pure 5.1 I'm always glad when there is a dedicated mix for only 5 speaker setups on offer.

Since the vocals are missing on Doctor! Doctor! and Paul suggested to simply switch to the Atmos track I did a fast listen to the 5.1 and Atmos tracks, especially because of the debate if this is a dedicated 5.1 mix or not. Well, this certainly is a dedicated mix and not just a "fold-down" of the Atmos put in a DTD-HD MA container. The spatial placement of various elements in the mix is clearly different, putting instruments more up to the front or between the front and rear speakers, while the downmix of the Atmos is quite rear heavy and puts almost everything just in the back, only leaving drums, bass and lead vocals at the front.

Btw, there is another glitch on the 5.1 between 18:56 and 18:59 when parts of the mix located in the right front speaker suddenly disappear for a few seconds. This is not the case with the Atmos.

So yeah, while this certainly is a great effort in surround mixing and really sounds great, all of these glitches - and maybe there are even more to be discovered - instantly make me call for a corrected replacement disc, especially since the 5.1 is a dedicated mix and the fold-down doesn't mirror it completely. These SDE releases are not cheap and should be free of any obvious authoring and mastering mistakes.

 

[hdlistener]

Have they actually stated there won't be a replacement disc? Absolutely unreasonable at that cost if that's the case.

 

[Nimbatus]

Have they actually stated there won't be a replacement disc? Absolutely unreasonable at that cost if that's the case.

I wrote SDE and Anne replied that Paul is aware of the issue(s?) and in contact with the label. Let's hope there will be a replacement disc.

 

[DuncanS]

I wrote SDE and Anne replied that Paul is aware of the issue(s?) and in contact with the label. Let's hope there will be a replacement disc.

That is possibly a key point, in that the authored master for production will have been sent by the label

 

[MarkN]

I am also "limited" to 5.1 listening, so am rather disappointed with the errors on this release. There is a very noticeable difference regarding placement of instruments between the dedicated 5.1 mix and the folded-down Atmos mix, contrary to what has been asserted by Paul at SDE. So simply using the Atmos mix of 'Doctor! Doctor!' doesn't really cut it for me. The several second long dropout on the front right channel around 50 seconds into the 5.1 mix of 'No Peace For The Wicked' is also pretty bad. I would give this a rather low poll rating if I was voting on it at this time due to these errors.

I'm reluctant to purchase any future releases from SDE if they don't do something to address this. I think a replacement disc is warranted, and if that is not possible, FLAC downloads of the 5.1 mix for those two tracks would be the absolute minimum acceptable solution to me.

 

[srbjab]

It's a real shame that these errors have occurred on such a popular, high-profile SDE release. A disc replacement program is a PITA for all involved, but based on the description of these issues it seems like the most responsible thing to do. A download of the affected tracks would be better than nothing, but doesn't really make the product whole. In my view, the backward compatibility of Atmos mixes with simpler speaker setups or 5.1 only capable equipment simply allows the seller to say: well, you will be able to hear something by playing the Atmos mix (as opposed to being completely incompatible), but in no way guarantees a listening experience equivalent to a dedicated, purpose built 5.1 mix.

 

[Blackwood]

I'm reluctant to purchase any future releases from SDE if they don't do something to address this.

29 releases to date, the SDE track record seems pretty good to me in terms of quality, but maybe I’m forgetting other incidents with poor quality control.

Perhaps reluctance of future SDE purchases should be more focused on releases by the same record company that produced this one.

 

[@gpoly]

I'm reluctant to purchase any future releases from SDE if they don't do something to address this. I think a replacement disc is warranted, and if that is not possible, FLAC downloads of the 5.1 mix for those two tracks would be the absolute minimum acceptable solution to me.

Gosh, that's a bit harsh! Under what circumstances do you think this is a mistake by SDE? The way I see it, the label sent them a file and they had it "pressed" onto a disk. They have never had access to the original multi-tracks.

 

[The Rang]

SDE might be a victim in this just like all of us.
But if he’s the seller he should go back to the responsible parties for a resolution. Hopefully they accommodate.
I’m strictly 5.1 (so Atmos doesn’t help me) and downloads aren’t an option for me. Luckily I’m primarily a 2 channel listener but still feel we should all get a “whole” product.

 

[JulesRules]

SDE might be a victim in this just like all of us.

One thing that bugs me, though, is that Paul seems intent on clamping down on complaints instead of openly addressing them. I posted twice about the track switching issue and neither comment has been published. And I haven't seen any comments on SDE about the dropout reported here, not sure if anyone has attempted to post about it on his page.

A disc replacement program is a PITA for all involved, but based on the description of these issues it seems like the most responsible thing to do.

Given that SDE is the only retailer for the disc, it would actually be relatively easy to handle a replacement program from the logistics side of things, as opposed to a general release that's been bought by people at hundreds of different shops.

29 releases to date, the SDE track record seems pretty good to me in terms of quality, but maybe I’m forgetting other incidents with poor quality control.

I guess this is the first really obvious error but issues with Tubular Bells (bass out of time in the Atmos mix, something funky going on with the Quad) and Danse Macabre Deluxe (I think there was something on there that wasn't on the original?) have been noted before.

 

[MarkN]

Gosh, that's a bit harsh! Under what circumstances do you think this is a mistake by SDE? The way I see it, the label sent them a file and they had it "pressed" onto a disk. They have never had access to the original multi-tracks.

My reluctance is primarily due to Paul's response so far about this issue. His stated position that the 5.1 mix on the disc is simply a fold-down of the Atmos, so nothing is really missing is simply not true.

If his response had been more along the lines of 'the label messed up the files they sent us, and we're looking to see how we might be able to address this', I'd feel much different.

 

[hdlistener]

Gosh, that's a bit harsh! Under what circumstances do you think this is a mistake by SDE? The way I see it, the label sent them a file and they had it "pressed" onto a disk. They have never had access to the original multi-tracks.

This is absolutely a mistake by SDE, and they need to take responsibility for it. They are the exclusive sellers of this product, and thereby ultimately responsible for quality control before selling it to the public. Is it too much to expect someone there to listen to each of these songs in each of the listening modes to ensure it's correct? I don't think so.