WHO’S NEXT/LIFEHOUSE Box set coming in September 2023 (STEVEN WILSON DOLBY ATMOS & 5.1 MIXES CONFIRMED!!)

[JulesRules]

…especially if the massive Camel box set ever materializes…

The Camel that breaks the shelf's back!

 

[PurpleMoustache]

I don't understand what is giving people this mistaken impression.
Nobody here has ever heard of or read a graphic novel?
A link from that other forum we use:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/the...des-amazing-172-page-hardcover-graphic-novel/
Pete Townshend says of the graphic novel, "Life House has always needed a story that makes sense but without the egos of new creatives who think they can 'fix' what was wrong with my first draft.
The graphic novel is built around that first draft written prior to recording sessions and workshops at the Young Vic in 1971.
A second draft with some good ideas from Roger in 1976 added some cohesion and more exciting collateral which really suits the comic format.
I'm delighted with the comic. The art is beautiful and dense, colourful of course and engaging.
The artists and their team have made an amazing and hugely collectible piece that adds depth and clarity to an otherwise complex story. 'Life House' is reborn."

Hoping that this shows up on the kindle/ComiXology store… would love to check it out… on my iPad without having to buy the whole box

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Another point of view on this release for the glass half-full minority.
An appreciation from a frustrated Jimi Hendrix fan:

https://www.modernlistenerpublishing.com/wont-get-fooled-again/
Won’t get fooled again? Oh, yes, we will.
Long-suffering Jimi Hendrix fans – and even the shorter-suffering variety – have come to expect at the least disappointment if not total let-down when it comes to the cornerstones of the Hendrix musical legacy.

That sinking feeling was once again hammered home by today’s announcement of the forthcoming Who’s Next archival releases, covering the brilliant 1970-1972 era of The Who...

...This is how a landmark album is honored.
This treatment is what Hendrix fans hoped for when the 50th anniversary of Electric Ladyland rolled around.

Instead, what was released was a seemingly chosen-at-random selection of demos and outtakes that failed as a telling of this album’s whole story, and a mediocre concert by the Jimi Hendrix Experience presented in lackluster sound quality...

Ah, well, at least it was cheap?

 

[cdheer]

It's interesting.

If you look at other industries, like film and video games, they sell to a mass market, so...the discs, cartridges and cases are produced in such large numbers they cost next to nothing to produce...

...but, they have a massive outlay to produce the content on those discs and cartridges.

For instance, Nintendo - probably the best example - have massive R&D costs, including prototyping of hardware and employment of the cream of the crop of the programing world and the costs of the overhead to house all of it. Their analog to digital interface - and (arguably) their game design - is second to none; and that comes at a premium. And while their games do carry a premium, their product is very precisely targeted (software and hardware produced in tandem and in concert to cater to a specific price point) to a market large enough to support the costs.

Look at the movie business and the massive costs involved: pre-production, post production, sets, costumes, CG and practical effects, legal, paying the talent, and not forgetting the advertising budget which - on average - makes up about a third of the total cost of each production...

...but they're selling to a mass market, and so their business model allows them to price their product affordably. (incidentally, Disney's just recorded massive losses due to market saturation).

Realistically - compared to the size of the market for movies and video games - what percentage of the global market listens to The Who...?...and what percentage of that listenership actually own surround sound systems...?

...we're basically talking about a relatively niche market.

So...how do you cover your production costs for re-engineering the music.

One way is to market to 'the masses' with a simple, affordable, two disc edition including a regular CD and an Atmos Blu-Ray and have the volume of sales absorb the cost of the remixing and re-engineering; or you can just stream it and hope it covers the costs; or...you target the "less price-sensitive" whales, by creating a product you can sell at an inflated price.

Looking at the box set in question; in terms of what it cost to manufacture the "physical component" i.e. the printed matter, the physical discs, the packaging, etc. there's an absolutely huge mark-up, probably at lest a one thousand percent profit margin if not more; much much more than most people would ever want to pay if this just contained re-releases of existing content.

It's possible that they've crunched the numbers and found that the only way to make the re-engineering of the music cost-effective, or worth doing from a business standpoint, is to market to the whales, at this price-point, with a big expensive looking box set that costs them a tiny fraction of the total RRP to produce (in which case this stuff really is in a death spiral)...

...or, it's also possible that they might be trying to exploit the market for as much as they can wring out of it, by milking the whales.

I can't say either way, as I don't know what the size of the market is for The Who's product or what percentage of that market own surround systems; nor do I know how much the outlay was, for re-engineering the musical content on the discs, or for the production design etc. It's not like it was produced through a kick-starter with clearly outlined tiers and goals for each part of the overall package.

So yeah...at one extreme it could be that it's this or nothing, that this is the only way that they could afford the upfront cost of re-engineering...

...or, at the other extreme, it could be that they're cynically exploiting the market for everything they can possibly wring out of it and throwing 80% of their long term listenership and the people who've supported them throughout their careers a sample CD so that they can see what they're missing... (anyone remember this...?)

I'd like to hope it's at least somewhere in between those two extremes.

Who knows...I can't say because I don't have the data to extrapolate from, but I think what can probably safely be said, is that when long-term super-fans, for whom Who's Next is a favourite album, and for who the price is completely affordable, are not buying it out of principal, because it's just too expensive; then the people making these things might need to take a moment to re-assess.

But who knows; maybe the people posting here and elsewhere are just a vocal minority.

Lets hope they get the volume of pre-orders they need for the box set to make streaming the surround files viable; I'd hate to think that if people vote with their feet and walk away from the box set that they might pull the stream.

First, I just wanted to say that this is an excellent post, with terrific (IMO) reasoning.

Second, I wonder if it might make more sense to release the SDE giant box at the high price, but then maybe a couple of years later, sell a slimmed-down version with less bonus stuff (but with the surround mix). Still make it expensive, but not as expensive. In theory, if the sales of the giant box have covered your production costs plus adequate profit, then the "standard edition" sales would be gravy, and cost very little to produce above and beyond what you've already paid.

I mean, I'm not in marketing and could be suggesting something wildly stupid. And you'd certainly have to account for those who are content to wait for standard editions, who would otherwise have grudgingly popped for the giant box. But I suspect impatience/FOMO might help there.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

The write up says the book talks about how the album came to be written and recorded. I'm sure it will be a good read and have lots of cool pictures. But didn't Pete cover most of this in his book, "Who I Am"? I have it on audiobook and it has been awhile since I have listened to it (highly recommended btw) so maybe I'm wrong.

Apologies for quoting you in my earlier post regarding the graphic novel, obviously you were referring to the other 100-page hardback book "designed by Richard Evans with an introduction by Pete Townshend and new sleeve notes by compilers Andy Neil and Matt Kent giving an overview of this classic album as well as rare photos and memorabilia from the era."

 

[stoopid]

First, I just wanted to say that this is an excellent post, with terrific (IMO) reasoning.

Second, I wonder if it might make more sense to release the SDE giant box at the high price, but then maybe a couple of years later, sell a slimmed-down version with less bonus stuff (but with the surround mix). Still make it expensive, but not as expensive. In theory, if the sales of the giant box have covered your production costs plus adequate profit, then the "standard edition" sales would be gravy, and cost very little to produce above and beyond what you've already paid.

I mean, I'm not in marketing and could be suggesting something wildly stupid. And you'd certainly have to account for those who are content to wait for standard editions, who would otherwise have grudgingly popped for the giant box. But I suspect impatience/FOMO might help there.

Often we see this strategy with standalone bluray surround releases, so there's certainly hope for those of us who will be waiting on a future release to hear the surround mix on bluray.

As an aside -- I get the attraction for fans to have the boxed set, I have a few boxed sets myself. But most people won't or can't spend the money, so it's always surprising to me that the record company doesn't just release a simultaneous standalone option. This statement is mostly true for older anniversary style releases, many newer albums are being released as multiple offerings. It would seem easier to get this into the hands and ears of as many people as you can, which helps drive down the costs for the initial run of items that will be shared across all the packaged options.

 

[The56Kid]

I completely agree, but bear in mind that it's not from one of the major labels...

KScope RULES!

 

[Tribby2001]

You know, I might have considered buying The Box $et if it was made of steel (or concrete with a certificate of authenticity of the pee stains) instead of post-consumer recycled toilet paper waste of unknown origin.

 

[Tribby2001]

The write up says the book talks about how the album came to be written and recorded. I'm sure it will be a good read and have lots of cool pictures. But didn't Pete cover most of this in his book, "Who I Am"? I have it on audiobook and it has been awhile since I have listened to it (highly recommended btw) so maybe I'm wrong.

So, is the book a companion to the 1999 Who's Next DVD documentary?

 

[bnyhof]

Another point of view on this release for the glass half-full minority.
An appreciation from a frustrated Jimi Hendrix fan:

https://www.modernlistenerpublishing.com/wont-get-fooled-again/
Won’t get fooled again? Oh, yes, we will.
Long-suffering Jimi Hendrix fans – and even the shorter-suffering variety – have come to expect at the least disappointment if not total let-down when it comes to the cornerstones of the Hendrix musical legacy.

That sinking feeling was once again hammered home by today’s announcement of the forthcoming Who’s Next archival releases, covering the brilliant 1970-1972 era of The Who...

...This is how a landmark album is honored.
This treatment is what Hendrix fans hoped for when the 50th anniversary of Electric Ladyland rolled around.

Instead, what was released was a seemingly chosen-at-random selection of demos and outtakes that failed as a telling of this album’s whole story, and a mediocre concert by the Jimi Hendrix Experience presented in lackluster sound quality...

Ah, well, at least it was cheap?

Relatively cheap and a very good surround mix. All that's most important to many of us.

 

[Bill B]

Relatively cheap and a very good surround mix. All that's most important to many of us.

I agree. The only disc that matters to most of us is the disc with the MC mix. I’d always opt for the stand-alone or the basic deluxe set (like The Beatles’ albums, optical discs in a book).

 

[Rango]

I agree. The only disc that matters to most of us is the disc with the MC mix. I’d always opt for the stand-alone or the basic deluxe set (like The Beatles’ albums, optical discs in a book).

Likewise, I like discs but I only want the discs. When I purchase a box set, the surround disc goes into a disc wallet next to my player and the big cumbersome box gets put into storage. I don't want the stuff clogging up my shelves and I don't want them in view because where I live I could potentially have my place turned over; stuff like this is actually a liability for me.

I had considered buying regular copies of the albums in question and just swapping out the regular CD's for the surround discs, so that I can put them on my shelf, but it's just more expense.

The Atmos mix will be available on the streaming services no matter what, that's probably the main reason why it was commissioned in the first place.

I hope you're right. I don't personally want the album, but on general principal and because of how it might affect future trends I'd very much hope whatever ructions are occurring regarding this box set won't affect its being streamed. I wouldn't want to be disappointed and don't want others to be; I know how I'd feel about this if it were an atmos or 5.1 mix that I actually wanted.

First, I just wanted to say that this is an excellent post, with terrific (IMO) reasoning.

Second, I wonder if it might make more sense to release the SDE giant box at the high price, but then maybe a couple of years later, sell a slimmed-down version with less bonus stuff (but with the surround mix). Still make it expensive, but not as expensive. In theory, if the sales of the giant box have covered your production costs plus adequate profit, then the "standard edition" sales would be gravy, and cost very little to produce above and beyond what you've already paid.

I mean, I'm not in marketing and could be suggesting something wildly stupid. And you'd certainly have to account for those who are content to wait for standard editions, who would otherwise have grudgingly popped for the giant box. But I suspect impatience/FOMO might help there.

Thanks.

While, on balance, I don't think my post really helps the box set's cause...?...I've tried to be as neutral as possible.

I worry they run the risk of insulting the whales while alienating the majority of their fanbase.

As for whether a cheaper, less elaborate skew might be made available, people here seem to think that that's a possibility, but in other markets I've seen people who've bought the expensive option getting angry about later cheaper options being made available...

...Personally I think it's a little selfish but I guess they feel the value of their item is being diminished; or maybe it's a function of their frustration at having to have paid so much for the version they bought?

Also seen people on this forum aggressively chasing down eBayer's who are distributing mixes they've had to pay a pretty penny for. Personally, if I already own a rare disc I couldn't really care less if someone wants to distribute it via eBay. I'd be more likely to buy that second copy so that I could put my original disc into storage to prevent it being damaged, and it's not like the artist is loosing money if it's a limited run disc that's already sold through...?

...but some people are sensitive to this kind of thing.

Another point of view on this release for the glass half-full minority.

I think it's less about the glass being full or half-full, and more about just wanting the contents of the glass, and not wanting to have to pay for a gilded and jewel-encrusted, crystal goblet in order to be able to enjoy its contents.

If this is the only way, financially, that they can actually get the re-engineered tracks released than I guess it's a necessary evil we have to put up with, but my instinct is that there's probably a massive profit margin on this box set. I think they're probably milking it for all it's worth and while I've said it once, I think it bares repeating: I worry they run the risk of insulting the whales while alienating the majority of their fanbase.

While this box set remains the only way to own original presses of the surround-mix discs, it just feels to me like the discs are being ransomed; it feels to me a little like extortion. I'm not claiming that's what it is; I'm just saying that's just how it feels to me, personally.

I wonder how many of these box sets they'd end up selling if they had a less expensive option that included just the discs.

Also, I'm not sure that it's a minority that are unhappy with the price and form-factor of this release. While it's possible that the people posting to express their displeasure here and elsewhere are a vocal minority, it could also be very telling as to what the market is prepared to support. You have to be realistic about what the market is capable of supporting and what people are prepared to pay for this type of thing.

Also, you have to consider that The Who have twelve studio albums. How many of those are going to get similarly priced releases and what do you think you're going to end up having to pay for Tommy and Quadrophenia?

Plus, if this sets an industry wide precedent for releases of this kind, what's your total outlay going to be moving forward...?...are you really prepared to spend 30 or 40k on surround releases? I'm lucky in as much that my tastes are such that there aren't a lot of albums I actually want to listen to...?...but a lot of people on this forum seem to have an insatiable appetite when it comes to music .

It's not the end of the world as there are streaming services but I for one actually like owning original presses, I just don't want to have to sell my furniture and skip meals to do so.

 

[lukpac]

Also, you have to consider that the who have twelve studio albums. How many of those are going to get similarly priced releases and what do you think you're going to end up having to pay for Tommy and Quadrophenia?

Probably none. My Generation, Sell Out, Tommy, Live At Leeds, and Quadrophenia all already have Super Deluxe Editions. Plus an earlier Deluxe Edition for Tommy. Sell Out was a really good set, but while the others could all be improved (in some cases significantly), I question whether any will be revisited. And while there has been talk about box sets for A Quick One and Odds & Sods, I can’t imagine either coming anywhere close to the size of Who’s Next. I don’t think those albums could support that much material, especially in the case of AQO. Nor is there the mass appeal of Who’s Next.

I could possibly see Tommy and Quadrophenia revisited, but even then I can’t imagine anything close to the Who’s Next box.

 

[Clement]

Well, for those of us who want SHM-CDs:

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/U...paign=The Who-20230721-person_prod-UICY-80340

 

[Rango]

Probably none. My Generation, Sell Out, Tommy, Live At Leeds, and Quadrophenia all already have Super Deluxe Editions. Plus an earlier Deluxe Edition for Tommy. Sell Out was a really good set, but while the others could all be improved (in some cases significantly), I question whether any will be revisited. And while there has been talk about box sets for A Quick One and Odds & Sods, I can’t imagine either coming anywhere close to the size of Who’s Next. I don’t think those albums could support that much material, especially in the case of AQO. Nor is there the mass appeal of Who’s Next.

I could possibly see Tommy and Quadrophenia revisited, but even then I can’t imagine anything close to the Who’s Next box.

To be honest I'm not really that familiar with the who; I'd not actually heard of Who's Next and I'm not familiar with what's already been released. I'd assumed it was a lesser known Who album and potentially the beginning of a series.

For me it's more about the general concepts and the basic principals involved, but looking at discogs it looks like it's possible to pick up the Super Deluxe version of Tommy for about $180, which I guess is a little more reasonable?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Well, for those of us who want SHM-CDs:

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/U...paign=The Who-20230721-person_prod-UICY-80340

Well, Clem, the price is on parity with the box set list price but I can only imagine how much DHL s/h will be on this massive 6" thick beast .... probably an additional $75 to $100!

 

[Clement]

Maybe on our trip to Japan next year . . . Who's Next!

 

[millertek]

Just saw the SDE announcement about Who's Next getting this SDE treatment. Always been a fan of that album and it;s original concept. I have one of the Lifehouse Chronicles box sets Pete released and some other items with demos. I also found a DTS UPMIX of this album, so I'm pretty psyched about this massive box coming out soon! Would like to hear a TRUE surround mixed version!

 

[JulesRules]

I'd assumed it was a lesser known Who album

"My remix of what for many is the greatest rock album ever made (and who am I to disagree?)..." - Steven Wilson

 

[Snood]

Open Amazon Asin Lookup : Data Insights & Analytics for Amazon Product Listings
Enter B0CB91MQBY in the search bar. The box set will come up with a $0.00 that changes to $299.98 after a moment.
The "VIEW ON AMAZON" button yields a "Sorry we couldn't find that page" page.
Amazon ASIN search is new to me too. What is it? Some sort of holding bin for future products less certain than usual?

Thank You - got a preorder in on this on Amazon and now will wait and seeeeeee - still an Iconic album like the Monolith in 2001 Space Odyssey - love the album and looking forward to all the CD content especially. Saw them in November 1982 It's Hard Tour -nice coolish weather for Florida General admission and Snood was standing like 10 yards from Pete OMG - doing his jumpy swingy stuff very awesome. So yeah... In on a preorder and will hope.....Love this album sooooo Much