ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

[neil wilkes]

Does nobody read the booklets any more? All of this is explained in three- it's all due to missing multitracks.

It is what it is.

Exactly.
Personally, I just do not get all the grumping, moaning & whining on this one.
And people wonder why the majors stopped trying with hires & multichannel - the answer would seem to be in this very thread.
They are damned if they do & damned if they don't because suddenly everyone's an authority.

I really think the nay-sayers should give Sony a break here (never thought I would be writing these words 10 years ago) as they have done the best they can do with what still survives, and it's apparently not good enough for certain members. Sheesh.
So there is an additional track on Tarkus - what of it? does it really matter? and if it does, then why did you buy the bloody thing in the first place?
Honestly, the constant whining makes me wonder why I bother sometimes, it really does - and if it makes me feel this way, how much more so do you think it makes the labels feel???

I apologise unreservedly to the quoted poster here, as this is by no means meant to reflect on what he wrote - sorry, LivingForever.

 

[GabeL]

Exactly.
Personally, I just do not get all the grumping, moaning & whining on this one.
And people wonder why the majors stopped trying with hires & multichannel - the answer would seem to be in this very thread.
They are damned if they do & damned if they don't because suddenly everyone's an authority.

I really think the nay-sayers should give Sony a break here (never thought I would be writing these words 10 years ago) as they have done the best they can do with what still survives, and it's apparently not good enough for certain members. Sheesh.
So there is an additional track on Tarkus - what of it? does it really matter? and if it does, then why did you buy the bloody thing in the first place?
Honestly, the constant whining makes me wonder why I bother sometimes, it really does - and if it makes me feel this way, how much more so do you think it makes the labels feel???

I apologise unreservedly to the quoted poster here, as this is by no means meant to reflect on what he wrote - sorry, LivingForever.

Very well said Neil...I for one am grateful for any/all surround sound releases. I even go so far as to buy titles that I've never heard in genres that I don't particularly enjoy just to support the production of such titles.

 

[John Svensson]

"And you can now see my location... " We refer to that place as Stones River, Reb.

Folks complaining about an "extra track"....that's pretty strange. This hasn't reached my section of the East Coast yet from Burning Shed, perhaps today's mail>

 

[neil wilkes]

For some reason there are a bunch of posts in the review thread talking about a recall announcement on TARKUS.
News to me.
Firstly, what recall announcement?
Secondly, the reviews thread is not the place for speculation - this one is. I hope Jon removes those posts sooner rather than later!!

 

[Quadzilla]

Personally, I just do not get all the grumping, moaning & whining on this one.

Fanboys of all genres seem to do that. They are more concerned with being able to identify semantics than they are with the big picture. Some guys prefer to "illustrate" their so-called facts with scope tracings and pretty pictures ... but if they can't actually hear a difference, then I guess they have no other choice.

They remind me of the Star Trek fanboy geeks who pick apart ever second of every episode ... "in episode 312; Captain Kirk had a zit on the left side of his forehead, but 13 minutes 42 seconds into the Klingon attack, the zit was on the right side. What are the producers trying to pull here? It must be a zit conspiracy! There should be an inquiry ... oh, and we MUST discuss it to death! Maybe I will present a white paper at the Bay Area convention. They are NOT going to get away with this zit cover-up" :howl ... oops, sorry Clearasil.

 

[kap'n krunch]

the whole "missing tracks" and extra content was explained A LONG TIME AGO.
People just don't pay (or don't want to pay) attention...

 

[Ge Someone]

For some reason there are a bunch of posts in the review thread talking about a recall announcement on TARKUS.

The speculation comes from Steven Wilson himself. Apparently the current version will be replaced by one without the track "Unknown Ballad". I hope Sony will pay you again to remove it (personally I think you should make it a hidden track, an Easter egg ).

So just when we thought DVD-A was dead, I receive 3 brand new DVD-A's in one week (ELPs and Katatonia) with one more in the mail from USA (Lynyrd Skynyrd). I have to pinch myself in the arm to check if I'm not dreaming. And a lot of the credit for making this happens goes to you Neil! Thanks a bunch.

So I hope you will not file my next observations of the Tarkus disc under whining.
When I select the DTS 5.1 audio option from the DVD-A menu, it starts playing a (hidden?) Dolby Digital track. Once I switch to the second audio track which is DTS it will work as expected. When playing the DVD-V part, the DTS track is selected automatically. Another thing that is totally not like you (so I suspect someone else did the Dolby encoding) is that the Dialog Normalisation of the DD is +4dB, so it plays 4dB louder than the other tracks. All minor quibble, though it might interest you on a professional level.
To play the 2 extra songs that are stereo only, one must go to the audio options. Just a suggestion, what about forgetting the audio options menu, in a case like this, and have "surround playlist advanced resolution" and "stereo playlist advanced resolution" and maybe the "surround playlist DTS" as well in the main menu.

 

[rtbluray]

Exactly.
Personally, I just do not get all the grumping, moaning & whining on this one.
And people wonder why the majors stopped trying with hires & multichannel - the answer would seem to be in this very thread.
They are damned if they do & damned if they don't because suddenly everyone's an authority.

I really think the nay-sayers should give Sony a break here (never thought I would be writing these words 10 years ago) as they have done the best they can do with what still survives, and it's apparently not good enough for certain members. Sheesh.
So there is an additional track on Tarkus - what of it? does it really matter? and if it does, then why did you buy the bloody thing in the first place?
Honestly, the constant whining makes me wonder why I bother sometimes, it really does - and if it makes me feel this way, how much more so do you think it makes the labels feel???

I apologise unreservedly to the quoted poster here, as this is by no means meant to reflect on what he wrote - sorry, LivingForever.

Neil, you seem to be the only advocate for high-res 5.1 surround left in the business (besides of course Steven), so keep fighting for us, despite the fact we may get on your nerves (especially in this instance).
I think it's great that we even got these 2 albums mixed in 5.1, especially the first album, given the missing multi-tracks.
There are so many records out there, like Steely Dan's Aja, that will probably never be released in 5.1 surround because of missing multi-tracks, so I really feel fans should just stop complaining and get these releases cause this is the best we'll get.

 

[tarkusnj]

Neil, you seem to be the only advocate for high-res 5.1 surround left in the business (besides of course Steven), so keep fighting for us, despite the fact we may get on your nerves (especially in this instance).
I think it's great that we even got these 2 albums mixed in 5.1, especially the first album, given the missing multi-tracks.

Steven and Neil!
Keep 'em coming!
I would just LOVE to know if the multi-tracks for WBMFTTSTNE are in your possession. Can anyone give us a clue as to what is in the works? (no pun intended)

 

[rtbluray]

Just got both in the mail today, and the 5.1 mixes are both 10s! Stellar job once again from Mr. Wilson!

However...
There's one huge mistake on the first album's second CD. There's a mastering error on track 5 (Steven's Remix of "Atropos"). It runs at a slower speed than on CD1 and the DVD-Audio Disc. I've attached an mp3 for proof.
First sample is CD1's Original Mix. Second Sample is CD2's New Mix. Third Sample is DVD-Audio's New Mix.
The first and third samples are how the track should sound. Really surprised nobody's caught this yet...

View attachment Atropos Sample.mp3

 

[wavelength]

Just got both in the mail today, and the 5.1 mixes are both 10s! Stellar job once again from Mr. Wilson!

However...
There's one huge mistake on the first album's second CD. There's a mastering error on track 5 (Steven's Remix of "Atropos"). It runs at a slower speed than on CD1 and the DVD-Audio Disc. I've attached an mp3 for proof.
First sample is CD1's Original Mix. Second Sample is CD2's New Mix. Third Sample is DVD-Audio's New Mix.
The first and third samples are how the track should sound. Really surprised nobody's caught this yet...

View attachment 6927

Thank god they got the dvda right!

 

[neil wilkes]

There's one huge mistake on the first album's second CD. There's a mastering error on track 5 (Steven's Remix of "Atropos"). It runs at a slower speed than on CD1 and the DVD-Audio Disc.

Nothing to do with me, Guv!!

 

[oxforddickie]

Girlfriend bought me Tarkus as a surprise (one of my all-time favourite albums) and i have a real problem listening to the DVD-A part.The rears are much louder (3 -6db) than the fronts.

Odly,the DTS stream is fine and is an enjoyablelisten,but the MLP stream, is a no-go.

I don't have any problems playing MLP in the my system,so i'm guessing it has to be the disc.Playing the DTS stream from the players or amps DTS decoder gives the same results

 

[grill]

OD, it might be your ears or your setup. Here are the avg. RMS values of each channel (FL, FR, C, LFE, SL, SR) for each surround track:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 01-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 59723520
Duration: 20:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -1.42 dB --- -1.23 dB --- -0.98 dB --- -23.04 dB --- -0.63 dB --- -0.57 dB
Avg RMS: -18.26 dB --- -17.96 dB --- -26.02 dB --- -39.94 dB --- -20.35 dB --- -20.10 dB
DR channel: 13.86 dB --- 13.38 dB --- 17.02 dB --- 13.46 dB --- 15.25 dB --- 15.41 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 02-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 5573760
Duration: 1:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -1.51 dB --- -0.14 dB --- -8.43 dB --- -21.83 dB --- -4.06 dB --- -1.64 dB
Avg RMS: -19.09 dB --- -19.01 dB --- -24.50 dB --- -40.36 dB --- -19.91 dB --- -19.29 dB
DR channel: 13.83 dB --- 14.76 dB --- 10.04 dB --- 15.69 dB --- 12.46 dB --- 14.64 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 03-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 11435200
Duration: 3:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -1.30 dB --- -0.86 dB --- -3.19 dB --- -22.96 dB --- -2.03 dB --- -0.68 dB
Avg RMS: -18.42 dB --- -17.86 dB --- -23.15 dB --- -39.00 dB --- -18.56 dB --- -18.60 dB
DR channel: 14.20 dB --- 13.44 dB --- 14.79 dB --- 13.04 dB --- 13.22 dB --- 14.20 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 04-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 11003200
Duration: 3:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -1.74 dB --- -1.18 dB --- -0.27 dB --- -26.47 dB --- -2.52 dB --- -2.76 dB
Avg RMS: -17.52 dB --- -17.95 dB --- -16.12 dB --- -45.29 dB --- -18.14 dB --- -18.94 dB
DR channel: 11.25 dB --- 11.09 dB --- 10.70 dB --- 12.23 dB --- 12.46 dB --- 12.92 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 05-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 9753600
Duration: 3:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -0.71 dB --- -1.95 dB --- -18.31 dB --- -24.71 dB --- -1.05 dB --- -1.40 dB
Avg RMS: -17.38 dB --- -17.55 dB --- -53.03 dB --- -43.11 dB --- -16.49 dB --- -17.89 dB
DR channel: 13.23 dB --- 12.81 dB --- 27.26 dB --- 15.13 dB --- 12.83 dB --- 13.51 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 06-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 8840960
Duration: 3:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -1.30 dB --- -0.23 dB --- -4.77 dB --- -24.65 dB --- -1.36 dB --- -2.20 dB
Avg RMS: -15.59 dB --- -15.98 dB --- -20.74 dB --- -40.52 dB --- -18.32 dB --- -17.40 dB
DR channel: 11.24 dB --- 12.30 dB --- 11.51 dB --- 13.30 dB --- 13.30 dB --- 12.51 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 07-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 6438400
Duration: 2:14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -0.79 dB --- -0.12 dB --- -0.49 dB --- -24.15 dB --- -1.36 dB --- -2.55 dB
Avg RMS: -15.43 dB --- -16.17 dB --- -18.13 dB --- -36.64 dB --- -21.44 dB --- -21.17 dB
DR channel: 13.27 dB --- 14.41 dB --- 13.25 dB --- 10.51 dB --- 15.25 dB --- 14.12 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: 08-Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/48000 + C-LFE 24/48000
Number of samples: 11784720
Duration: 4:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Channel 1 Channel 2 Channel 3 Channel 4 Channel 5 Channel 6

Peak Value: -0.14 dB --- -2.02 dB --- -1.27 dB --- -25.01 dB --- -5.75 dB --- -4.31 dB
Avg RMS: -17.98 dB --- -18.60 dB --- -18.09 dB --- -43.20 dB --- -23.63 dB --- -23.44 dB
DR channel: 13.20 dB --- 13.32 dB --- 13.03 dB --- 13.85 dB --- 14.37 dB --- 13.71 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Quad Linda]

It's 7AM and I'll be cross-eyed Linda all day after reading that. Is RMS rooms or root mean square?

 

[grill]

The latter one.

 

[Quad Linda]

You win a kiss for the correct answer, but you'll need to come to Chicago to collect.

Watts Rooms?

The latter one.

 

[tarkusnj]

Just got both in the mail today, and the 5.1 mixes are both 10s! Stellar job once again from Mr. Wilson!

However...
There's one huge mistake on the first album's second CD. There's a mastering error on track 5 (Steven's Remix of "Atropos"). It runs at a slower speed than on CD1 and the DVD-Audio Disc. I've attached an mp3 for proof.
First sample is CD1's Original Mix. Second Sample is CD2's New Mix. Third Sample is DVD-Audio's New Mix.
The first and third samples are how the track should sound. Really surprised nobody's caught this yet...

View attachment 6927

I haven't received my copy of the first album yet but that is one very obvious FUBAR for sure!
Wonder how that can happen? And just that one track huh?

 

[rtbluray]

Nothing to do with me, Guv!!

I know, Neil. Just pointing it out for fellow members. Should we attempt to inform Sony of this error?

 

[grill]

You win a kiss for the correct answer, but you'll need to come to Chicago to collect.

Watts Rooms?

2 x LOL. Also, I'd warmly welcome you to Budapest.