shedsoundsmedia
Member
I meant to mention that in my video ! I could see demoing my system with that tune. It’s such creative mixing.
Jethro Tull 5.1 (“Bursting Out” box set with Steven Wilson 5.1 mixes out in June 2024!)
- Thread starter JohnN
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My friend Johnny pointed out to me that, if you isolate the center channel of the 5.1 mix, you can figure out on which songs Ian put overdubs and where, by listening to the leakage around the vocals or flute. The studio tapes, additionally, have a clearer quality to them, while the live ones tend to be slightly muffled by comparison. Unfortunately, the 5.1 mix doesn't give you hints on the other band members' overdubs.
Here's the breakdown of Ian's overdubs on the album:
No Lullaby: vocals (second half), flute (intro)
Sweet Dream: vocals, flute (except for the final seconds)
A New Day Yesterday: vocals, flute
Songs From The Wood: vocals (opening lines)
Thick As A Brick: vocals (second verse but not the second chorus, "See There a man is born", "The poet and the Painter", "I've come down to the upper class"), flute ("The poet and the Painter", "I've come down to the upper class"), tambourine
Hunting Girl: vocals
Too Old to RNR: vocals
Minstrel in the Gallery: vocals, flute
Noticeably, I could find no overdubs on the last four songs. This got me thinking and I think I figured out what caused the differences on "Quatrain" and "Aqualung". On the book they mention that the last reel of Berne became the master reel for side four of "Bursting Out". I compared the "Aqualung" solo with the one on Berne and it matches. Just to be sure, I checked again against the "Bursting Out" original album and they're definitey different performances.
My pet theory is that what happened is that, instead of transferring the whole multis, they reused the Berne transfers as they were for the end of the album. "Quatrain" was likely from a different show, as it's not listed among the songs recorded in Berne on the HH boxset, and the "Aqualung" solo was either an overdub or taken from a different performance. So the final four songs of the remix are, basically, indicative of how the Berne tapes would have sounded like had Steven Wilson mixed them instead of Jakko.
Here's the breakdown of Ian's overdubs on the album:
No Lullaby: vocals (second half), flute (intro)
Sweet Dream: vocals, flute (except for the final seconds)
A New Day Yesterday: vocals, flute
Songs From The Wood: vocals (opening lines)
Thick As A Brick: vocals (second verse but not the second chorus, "See There a man is born", "The poet and the Painter", "I've come down to the upper class"), flute ("The poet and the Painter", "I've come down to the upper class"), tambourine
Hunting Girl: vocals
Too Old to RNR: vocals
Minstrel in the Gallery: vocals, flute
Noticeably, I could find no overdubs on the last four songs. This got me thinking and I think I figured out what caused the differences on "Quatrain" and "Aqualung". On the book they mention that the last reel of Berne became the master reel for side four of "Bursting Out". I compared the "Aqualung" solo with the one on Berne and it matches. Just to be sure, I checked again against the "Bursting Out" original album and they're definitey different performances.
My pet theory is that what happened is that, instead of transferring the whole multis, they reused the Berne transfers as they were for the end of the album. "Quatrain" was likely from a different show, as it's not listed among the songs recorded in Berne on the HH boxset, and the "Aqualung" solo was either an overdub or taken from a different performance. So the final four songs of the remix are, basically, indicative of how the Berne tapes would have sounded like had Steven Wilson mixed them instead of Jakko.
shedsoundsmedia
Member
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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I was wondering if that Berne show from the Heavy Horses DVD release was maybe an upmix attempt (lost multitracks) or if it was really botched or maybe just unfinished like it seemed. (Trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, right?) Evidence suggests the later it seems. How did that ever make the release in that condition?
JulesRules
500 Club - QQ All-Star
Do you think Jakko's mixes of Paris 1975 and Boston/Landover 1977 were significantly better?
shedsoundsmedia
Member
Galeans and others have suggested that maybe Jakko’s mixes were meant to be mastered - but since SW has an edict against mastering they may have presented it unmastered to fall in line with his wishes. I agree it’s an underwhelming mix … two keyboard players and you can’t really hear either of them ??? Somethings wrong …
Not particularly, no. I do think Jakko’s Thrak mix is quite good though.
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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I think the only mix I've ever heard from Jakko that's remotely good is the King Crimson Thrak album. I think it's really good! And I think in hindsight that's more Robert Fripp's hand. Still love that mix!
On the other hand, every Jakko mix I've heard sounds like it was starting its journey as a serious mix. What I mean by that is I don't hear any hallmarks of volume war or other harsh treatments. That's why I often say they sound unfinished. This whole thing really doesn't add up! Someone who would genuinely sign off on these mixes as is wouldn't have the ability to dial in the successful parts as well as they are. I've heard enough to want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But here we are with those mixes...
And the unfinished parts aren't like a work in progress that was "as good as I could get it so far". It's where you have grossly unmixed parts that you aren't actively working on. Maybe the bass guitar track is accidentally routed to the wrong bus in a song you aren't working on at the moment, for example. It didn't get by you where you just didn't notice it... you literally weren't listening to and working on that part yet! Then it gets yanked out of your hands and releases as is and... oh no!
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Scarcity of Miracles also a solid mix, IMO.
Jacco also mixed Ian Anderson's concert video Live in Iceland, Thick As A Brick. One of the best st live recordings I've heard.
shedsoundsmedia
Member
Those are two discs I used to have but not longer - didn’t realize Jaksyk had done those ! Have you heard Homo Erraticus ?
Yes I have that. I haven't listened to it in quite a some time.
shedsoundsmedia
Member
I’d be curious you’re opinion on the surround mix, that’s one I don’t have anymore either
Seconded The rest of JJs mixes evoke variations on 'wtf'?
I thought that the 1977 show featured on the Songs From The Wood box set sounded fabulous, IMO.
And in reading about the daunting task it was to actually create the mix and manage to sync it with the video that is detailed in the book, it made me appreciate it even more!
I can’t speak to the Paris 1975 mix as I haven’t spent too much time listening to that one, but Jakko does do good work occasionally.
JulesRules
500 Club - QQ All-Star
That was definitely an amazing feat but I don't think the actual mix is all that great, sonically. It lacks some sparkle, sounding more like a soundboard mix to me.
Ranasakawa
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I own every box set Tull has put out. But I'm not getting this one as I have finally come to the realisation that I don't play them more than once after I buy it. The cost of living in Australia has definitely been a huge factor in my decision.
I watched the Madison Square Video today. Some random thoughts.
It's a decent mix for a live album., rears are active. The sonics are Ok. (Note that I couldn't crank it, so they might be better than OK) The real treasure is the video.
I'll bet the explanation is in the book that I haven't finished yet. But its presented like a full concert, but only the part that was broadcast live on TV has real video, the beginning and the ending include several songs that are accompanied by a slide show only. It recycles the same 8 or so pics. So the performance is a show within a show, with different encores.
Is that the chronology of it?
My fave part of Thick As A Brick was cut, ....
I see you shuffle in the court room
With your rings upon you fingers
And your downy little sidies
And your silver buckle shoes. ........All the way to the end of part 1
No Biggles.
The TV advertisements will take you back.
It's a decent mix for a live album., rears are active. The sonics are Ok. (Note that I couldn't crank it, so they might be better than OK) The real treasure is the video.
I'll bet the explanation is in the book that I haven't finished yet. But its presented like a full concert, but only the part that was broadcast live on TV has real video, the beginning and the ending include several songs that are accompanied by a slide show only. It recycles the same 8 or so pics. So the performance is a show within a show, with different encores.
Is that the chronology of it?
My fave part of Thick As A Brick was cut, ....
I see you shuffle in the court room
With your rings upon you fingers
And your downy little sidies
And your silver buckle shoes. ........All the way to the end of part 1
No Biggles.
The TV advertisements will take you back.
