Stuff that sounds amazing with the Surround Master

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Actually the Involve/QS mode does an excellent job of reading the phase relationships in stereo content.

It doesn't add any additional echo / reverb / etc, so you can't really "fake" the surround sound

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/qs-1.shtml
(kinda OTT description, but AFAIK, one reason Sansui developed QS was to allow stereo to be [up]converted to surround sound)

Re: "fake": an older (from 2012) thread titled "fake quad" was recently updated with another thread titled "fake surround sound-specify method", the new thread includes using matrix decoders (any system) and/or time delay systems and/or upmixing systems to provide a surround sound effect from a 2 channel source.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1977-03.pdf#page=85

There's a older thread about using an SQ decoder to create fake surround sound (various SQ decoders - no logic and logic assisted), if I can find the thread, I'll edit in the link.


Kirk Bayne
 
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/qs-1.shtml
(kinda OTT description, but AFAIK, one reason Sansui developed QS was to allow stereo to be [up]converted to surround sound)

Re: "fake": an older (from 2012) thread titled "fake quad" was recently updated with another thread titled "fake surround sound-specify method", the new thread includes using matrix decoders (any system) and/or time delay systems and/or upmixing systems to provide a surround sound effect from a 2 channel source.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1977-03.pdf#page=85

There's a older thread about using an SQ decoder to create fake surround sound (various SQ decoders - no logic and logic assisted), if I can find the thread, I'll edit in the link.


Kirk Bayne
Oh I'm sure it's possible to fake, I just mean our system doesn't do that, purposely. You could certainly use it in that kind of setup though. There are those who have used two of our decoders, one using the phantom two-channel surround mode first and then the decoder to create that sort of effect. Does require dual SMs though. :)
 
The latter. We based the Involve decode on the mathematics of the old Sansui QS system, because it's perfectly circular and makes for a much better surround sound extraction. However it had a tendency to create a compressed stereo image. SQ on the other hand sounds great in stereo, but the resulting decode only leaves about 3dB of distinction to decide what is front and rear, and so the surround decode was inferior. However, in the 70s, more people had stereo setups than quadraphonic, so as a result a lot more material was released in the SQ format.
When we released the original Surround Master, it was Involve/QS only, and we turned to this forum to test our gear. The result was, to paraphrase "Yes it's great, but can you do an equivalent modernisation of SQ decoding as well?" and so we spent some months on that, the V2 and V3 Surround Master now does both QS and SQ decoding. The SQ mode is also good for pro-logic II recordings, as they based that format partially on SQ maths, and the Involve/QS mode does a great job of decoding stereo into surround, as well as great decoding of other phase-related matrix systems such as RM, Ambisonics, Qsound, Dummy Head, etc.
The only thing we don't really do in the SM is CD-4, which is a modulation/demodulation system rather than a matrix format. It has been requested many times, and we'd like to eventually, we're just a small team with other priorities first. Still, never say never. :)

Oh, to answer your question further, SQ does decode stereo to a degree into surround, but nowhere near as pleasingly. Not to our ears at least, YMMV, but the Involve/QS surround extraction is superior, from an engineering perspective, also.

~D

Oh, we also supercharged the QS encode and made it smarter about encoding decisions, so the Involve encode has the surround capability of QS but with a much better stereo presentation. It's a free license to encode - Suzanne Ciani's "Quadraphonic Live!" album was produced with the use of our encode format.
Thanx much, appreciate the explanation.
 
Pete Bardens / Water Colors - Recorded in Seattle Washington. A video of the various outdoor footage released on Laser Disc and VHS fits the music perfectly. This music "goes together like peas and carrots" with the SM3, absolutely amazing!!! For your listening pleasure here's a couple of tunes from the cd:

"Journey"
"Yellowstone Blue"

Pete Bardens:Water Colors.jpg


It's like hearing it for the first time all over again!!!
 
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Keats / Keats (1984) consisting of Colin Blunstone, Peter Bardens, Ian Bairnson, David Paton, Stuart Elliott and Alan Parsons. Similar to Alan Parsons (didn't see that comin') this music also "goes together like peas and carrots" and sounds amazing with the SM3. For your listening pleasure:

"How Can You Walk Away" (David Paton)
"Avalanche" (Pete Bardens)
"Ask No Questions" (Ian Bairnson)
"Night Full Of Voices" (Colin Blunstone & Stuart Elliott) My favorite.
"Interview with Ian Bairnson & Alan Parsons on how this band came about"


Keats.jpg


It's like hearing it for the first time all over again!!!
 
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Oh I'm sure it's possible to fake, I just mean our system doesn't do that, purposely. You could certainly use it in that kind of setup though. There are those who have used two of our decoders, one using the phantom two-channel surround mode first and then the decoder to create that sort of effect. Does require dual SMs though. :)
I sometimes use Auro 3D on top of the Surround Master, but just to get the Auro 3D effect from the ceiling speakers. It is a very complicated setup, however.
 
What's the difference between listening to the Involve mode and listening to the SQ mode? Is it just a matter of personal listening preference or certain types of recordings for each mode?
I generally left my SQ decoder in the loop when playing just about anything stereo, and while the results were inconsistent, I often had delightful results. I didn’t have a QS or RM capability at the time, so I couldn’t A/B compare, but from what I’ve heard, QS is even more likely to give a pleasant experience. YMMV.
 
Various Artists / Amazing Stereo Doo Top: 30 Original Hits - WOW!!! Another fantastic release from the good folks at "Eric Record" not only does it sound great but an awesome selection of songs. Amazing stereo remastering but listening to these through the SM3 is mind blowing and utterly AMAZING!!! I had a hard time picking just a few so forgive me if I picked too many. Now for your listening pleasure:

"Little Star / The Elegents"
"Image Of A Girl / The Safaris"
"I Only Have Eyes For You / The Flamingos" an all-time favorite of mine and great make-out tune;)
"Dedicated To The One I Love / The Shirelles"
"Duke Of Earl / Gene Chandler"
"Smokey Places / The Corsairs"
"Step By Step / The Crests"
"Since I Don't Have You / The Skyliners"


Various:Doo Wop.jpg


It's like hearing it for the first time all over again!!!
 
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The Dolphin Brothers / Catch The Fall (1987) - Steve Jansen & Richard Barbieri this is the only album as "The Dolphin Brothers" and it's a real shame this is a great album, I fell in love with it the first time I hear it. I have the Japanese version with a bonus cut, worth the extra expense. Excellent production and the SM3 really makes this music sound amazing!!! For your listening pleasure:

"Second Sight" awesome tune!!!
"Love That You Need"
"Pushing The River"
"Face To Face" the bonus track.

Dolphin Brothers.jpg


It's like hearing it for the first time all over again!!!
 
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David Sylvian / Gone To Earth (1986) Excellent sounding cd which the SM3 makes sound amazing!!! This type of music really benefits from the SM3! For your listening pleasure are a couple standout tracks:

"Taking The Veil" a killer kut!!!
"River Man"
David Sylvian:Gone To Earth.jpg


It's like hearing it for the first time all over again!!!
 
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Nik Kershaw / You've Got To Laugh (2006) My first listen to this GREAT artist, songwriter, lyricist, musician through the SM3 and with this great production and recording, sounds absolutely AMAZING!!! Wow, such a treat, so many eargasms. For your listening pleasure enjoy the wit and wisdom of "Mr. Nik Kershaw":

"Can't Get Arrested"
"Promises, Promises"
"Yeah, Yeah"
"Loud, Confident And Wrong" - ode to "W"
"I Hope Your Happy Now"
Nik Kershaw:You've Got To Laugh.jpg


It's like hearing it for the first time all over again!!!
 
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China Crisis / Flaunt The Imperfection (1985) Produced by "Walter Becker", this was my first introduction to this band since then I've purchased everything I could get my hands on. This is the remastered 2 CD set is stunning and combined with the SM3 sounds AMAZING resulting in multiple eargasms!!! For your listening pleasure:

"Strength Of Character"
"You Did Cut Me"
"Gift Of Freedom"
"Bigger The Punch I'm Feeling"
"The World Spins, I'm Part Of It"
China Crisis:Flaunt The Imperfection.jpg


It's like hearing it for the first time all over again!!!
 
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My SM is not yet integrated into my system, although it’s hopefully getting close.

Back when I only had an SQ decoder, I ran everything through it, probably because I didn’t have to change any settings. Some stuff was remarkable, others less so. I imagine playing almost any decently moxed stereo through RM would result in a pleasing result. The SM’s procesing seems to be even better, although I still need to get some real-world experience.
 
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