Yes - Close to the Edge 5.1 DVD-A/BluRay in October

[cupboy]

I think if would be a good business decision to get it out now, before AF comes out with their stereo SACD.

 

[user 1679]

I think if would be a good business decision to get it out now, before AF comes out with their stereo SACD.

Again, not necessarily. Perhaps a "good business decision" would be to at least say exactly what they expect to release in this series with even a tentative schedule. The people that want the 5.1 stuff and new 2.0 mixes will surely wait, those that are stuck in the "hate 5.1 it's a gimmick gimme 2.0 sacd" are not going to change their minds (a significant portion of the SH forums....). I still say flooding your target audience with too many at once is *not* a good business move for all the reasons I stated already.

 

[timbre4]

Whatever AF does probably isn't even a blip on Pangyric radar. True fans of the band(s) and surround fanatics would not be dissuaded.

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

Unbelievably fabulous and Earth Shattering news. The entire 1970's lineup of YES in 5.1 a la Steven Wilson.

Are you kidding me???

:banana: :yikes :banana:

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

I see this type of comment fairly often on our site. They said it is going to come out - let them follow the schedule that they decide is right for them.

Two reasons why not:

1. Record companies have a proven track record of making bad decisions for all parties incl. themselves. Example: Capitol records going to war with Eric Johnson over the proper release of Ah Via Musicom in 5.1.

2. These recordings are not given away free like some charity. We(most of us) actually pay a lot of $$$ for this sh%t. In business there is a long, well established & proven motto that "the customer is king". not my opinion, just time tested good business. The record companies on the other hand have disregarded this montra and have gotten us in this mess that we are in today. Of course they blame poor record sales on dirt poor kids in Panama, Latvia & Asia for pirating music...

My lad, there is nothing better than taking cold hard cash from a willing participant. You should not be so quick to castigate an anxious buyer. His interest can be fleeting if he feels jerked around or made to wait for years or many months for no good purpose. There would certainly be no downside to relase the first two issues
as long as they are complete.

As for the mystery 2014 YES release, SW hinted about, I will guess it is Going For The One. Based on the fact that that SH seemed to put out GFTO in 2.0 SACD so fast after CTTE. That is why we must wait till 2014 for the 5.1. To space the releases apart to maximize sales of both the 2.0 SACD and the new 5.1 SW offering.(Just my crazy-warped thought process...)

Fabulous news from SW is that he said all the 70's YES would be done, hinting that Tales From Topographic Oceans would be done as well. Tales may not be their best, but it sure would be the most fascinating advenure in SW discrete 5.1. Tales was made for 5.1.

Happy Days Are Here Again!

 

[The Pink Floyd]

Would all of the 70's YES music include Yessongs?

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

Huh?! I want them all and I want them yesterday!!! :howl

I'm with you dude, maybe cause I worked in California for over twenty years.... Nah, its becasue you are absolutely right!

Somebody grab SW and lock him in the Studio until YES - YES through YES - Drama are complete and then sell us a big box set for Christmas, they can pretty much name their price as far as I am concerned...

 

[LizardKing]

Next up - The Yes Album - JMG (Just My Guess) ....

I think that its the the one that's been mixed already.

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

Would all of the 70's YES music include Yessongs?

Hey man, my understanding is that Yessongs was recorded via a 4 channel mixer to tape so instruments we already mixed during recording and no discrete multitrack tape source exists. So it would be impossible to do a discrete remix of that one. Anybody know otherwise of the source tapes for Yessongs?

 

[neil wilkes]

I'm with you dude, maybe cause I worked in California for over twenty years.... Nah, its becasue you are absolutely right!

Somebody grab SW and lock him in the Studio until YES - YES through YES - Drama are complete and then sell us a big box set for Christmas, they can pretty much name their price as far as I am concerned...

There is much more to it than just Steven doing the mixes though, Dennis.
Please bear in mind the dual formats here, and think about the artwork, look & feel (layout & design) as well as the whole signoff process.
Then there is mastering the audio, assembly, authoring, testing of the discs etc (which is a DVD-V layer, a DVD-A layer & the 2 combined Plus the BluRay version (and BD is horrendously complicated to create)
That aside, just trust me when I assure you these are well worth the wait. :chill

If these were rushed out, mistakes would get made. All manner of things must be checked & double checked, such as BD player compatibility - we have profile 1, 1.1 & 2 players out there with varying sizes of image buffer as well as varying levels of local storage and lots of other things to consider so we can ensure proper function on all players, including the dreaded PS3.

 

[colsky]

Hi all, new member here. Although this is my first post I have been reading this forum for a couple of years, and always find it entertaining and informative. I have bought a few surround sound releases as a direct result of reading about them on this forum (e.g. The Vicar - in a word, superb). Some of my all time favourite albums have come out in excellent surround packages in recent times (Red, Thick as a Brick, Warrior on the Edge of Time etc etc etc, keep them coming!). My favourite album though has always been Close to the Edge, so I can't wait for this one. I have the BD on order from Sainsburys Entertainment (£13.99 with them). I often order through them, as they are very good on price, and items ordered pre-release often arrive on the day of release (something I think you have to pay extra at Amazon for).

I often read debates on forums about surround versus stereo. Some of my friends, particularly those with real high end equipment, will not be convinced by surround, as they always point to their enormous floor standing front speakers and say that surround wouldn't work for them, without similar speakers at the rear too. What I haven't seen debated ever is an issue that I have, which is - what is the real value of new stereo versions that are often included with BDs and DVD-A's? I wouldn't say that my own system is high end, but neither is it low end. (As far as players are concerned, I have a £2000 Naim cd player and a £2000 Denon universal player.) The surround sound produced by the Denon is incredible. But, as far as stereo is concerned - cds played on the Naim sound so much better than when played on the Denon. Even if you play the flat transfer stereo version from a DVD-A on my Denon, then it sounds excellent of course, but still not up with the cd (from the same set) as played on the Naim. I am not saying that such extras on a BD or DVD-A are worthless though, any extra on such a quality release is welcome. Apologies if this has been debated elsewhere (I'm guessing it must have at some point). If it has, could someone please post the link.

Roll on October

 

[hwkn]

The quad mix of Yessongs has been lost afaik so unless there are multitracks available there will be no 5.1 mix[except for the mix on the Blu ray video disc which is an upmix from the stereo version i do believe].

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Hi all, new member here. Although this is my first post I have been reading this forum for a couple of years, and always find it entertaining and informative. I have bought a few surround sound releases as a direct result of reading about them on this forum (e.g. The Vicar - in a word, superb). Some of my all time favourite albums have come out in excellent surround packages in recent times (Red, Thick as a Brick, Warrior on the Edge of Time etc etc etc, keep them coming!). My favourite album though has always been Close to the Edge, so I can't wait for this one. I have the BD on order from Sainsburys Entertainment (£13.99 with them). I often order through them, as they are very good on price, and items ordered pre-release often arrive on the day of release (something I think you have to pay extra at Amazon for).

I often read debates on forums about surround versus stereo. Some of my friends, particularly those with real high end equipment, will not be convinced by surround, as they always point to their enormous floor standing front speakers and say that surround wouldn't work for them, without similar speakers at the rear too. What I haven't seen debated ever is an issue that I have, which is - what is the real value of new stereo versions that are often included with BDs and DVD-A's? I wouldn't say that my own system is high end, but neither is it low end. (As far as players are concerned, I have a £2000 Naim cd player and a £2000 Denon universal player.) The surround sound produced by the Denon is incredible. But, as far as stereo is concerned - cds played on the Naim sound so much better than when played on the Denon. Even if you play the flat transfer stereo version from a DVD-A on my Denon, then it sounds excellent of course, but still not up with the cd (from the same set) as played on the Naim. I am not saying that such extras on a BD or DVD-A are worthless though, any extra on such a quality release is welcome. Apologies if this has been debated elsewhere (I'm guessing it must have at some point). If it has, could someone please post the link.

Roll on October

Hi Colsky, welcome to QQ ( as a member, as you know this great site for many years already). What I understand is that Steven Wilson first creates a new stereo mix, faithful to the original mix, but with perhaps some added clarity and different EQ. This new stereo mix forms the basis from which the 5.1 is created. So the new stereo mix s there, why not include it?

In your set you seem to have the best of both worlds. You can play the new stereo mix on the Naim cd player and the 5.1 on the Denon.

 

[0tto]

I often read debates on forums about surround versus stereo. Some of my friends, particularly those with real high end equipment, will not be convinced by surround, as they always point to their enormous floor standing front speakers and say that surround wouldn't work for them, without similar speakers at the rear too. What I haven't seen debated ever is an issue that I have, which is - what is the real value of new stereo versions that are often included with BDs and DVD-A's? I wouldn't say that my own system is high end, but neither is it low end. (As far as players are concerned, I have a £2000 Naim cd player and a £2000 Denon universal player.) The surround sound produced by the Denon is incredible. But, as far as stereo is concerned - cds played on the Naim sound so much better than when played on the Denon. Even if you play the flat transfer stereo version from a DVD-A on my Denon, then it sounds excellent of course, but still not up with the cd (from the same set) as played on the Naim.

that's true. best way would be to have all speakers absolutely identical but since with a top overpriced ones for most
people it's hard task to accomplish, most of them just tries to match and in most cases it works well.

re: CD sound better than 96/24 lossless - i have pretty much doubt in such statement. we do not talk about different
mastering, isn't?
if so, even from tech point it's impossible as in digital domain quality heavily relying on amount of data have been
captured and saved. no one in his mind will argue that movie with 1080 resolution on BD isn't have better picture
than the same movie with 720 on DVD.
the same rule apply to sound as well.

in your case difference perhaps comes from sound processing. my guess your CD player do not deliver flat sound,
how it is originaly but during processing added some EQ coloration to the sound. most likely your Naim was preceded
Denon and you just used to it sound. kind of listening preference habit.

re: surround vs. stereo. there more than flying around effects. main advantage, which for some reason not
considered in discussions is PRESERVATION of original unaltered during the mixing fidelity of the sound.
there some downside of mixing elements with similar range of freq. when they doing cancelation of particular spectral
part of the sound or introduces distortion to it.unlike mono or stereo, the multiple array of sound location of surround,
gives chance to avoid such effect when instead of mixing it into single stream, mixer has opportunity to place
elements into separate streams and thus preserve clarity of original source.

 

[colsky]

Thanks Robert and Otto. I'm not suggesting that cd sounds better than 96/24 lossless as a general rule. The lossless version on a DVD-A played on my Denon sounds better than the cd version on the Denon. But i do believe that music reproduction from cds played on a Naim cd player sound better than that played on my Denon universal player.

That said, the surround sound on the Denon is excellent. I am at the moment listening to the new 5.1 Five Miles Out which arrived today. Its a really good mix, but sounds different to the original album? - this is a comment for another thread I know!

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

There is much more to it than just Steven doing the mixes though, Dennis.
Please bear in mind the dual formats here, and think about the artwork, look & feel (layout & design) as well as the whole signoff process.
Then there is mastering the audio, assembly, authoring, testing of the discs etc (which is a DVD-V layer, a DVD-A layer & the 2 combined Plus the BluRay version (and BD is horrendously complicated to create)
That aside, just trust me when I assure you these are well worth the wait. :chill

If these were rushed out, mistakes would get made. All manner of things must be checked & double checked, such as BD player compatibility - we have profile 1, 1.1 & 2 players out there with varying sizes of image buffer as well as varying levels of local storage and lots of other things to consider so we can ensure proper function on all players, including the dreaded PS3.

Hi Neil,

My wife yells at me all the time to "get to the point" so regrettably I am too brief sometimes and I left you out. I meant to say" Lock up SW and that handsome English Gentleman, Neil Wilkes until they sort it all out for all the YES records through Drama. Bring in some bangers & mash if the lads get hungry and even throw in some female Ukranian college students for company, but don't let them out until they are done!, right!"

Please know that we all enjoy and revere the complete package, produced just like you enumerate and we appreciate all the hard work that goes into providing it for sale. Especially lobbying the non music fans who control the record labels... We love what you do and we appreciate it all:

Just: Get on with it lads! We are all rooting for you!

:banana: :sun

Our greatest fear,as 5.1 fans, is that slow releases lead to no releases like the indefinite postphonement of the remaining 5.1 Elton John remixes.:howl

My single & very personal request to you is that you grab Steven Wilson & the execs and don't let them squirm away unitil Tales from Topographic Oceans is a done deal.

We love you & SW!

DennisMoore

 

[ssully]

The quad mix of Yessongs has been lost afaik so unless there are multitracks available there will be no 5.1 mix[except for the mix on the Blu ray video disc which is an upmix from the stereo version i do believe].

I don''t think there ever was a quad mix of Yessongs( the LP). There was a 'quad' soundtrack for the Yessongs movie on its original theatrical run, but that was LCR + mono 'rear' speakers, and it sounded horrible anyway, even compared to the LP, which is no sonic beauty either.

 

[ssully]

that's true. best way would be to have all speakers absolutely identical but since with a top overpriced ones for most
people it's hard task to accomplish, most of them just tries to match and in most cases it works well.

re: CD sound better than 96/24 lossless - i have pretty much doubt in such statement. we do not talk about different
mastering, isn't?
if so, even from tech point it's impossible as in digital domain quality heavily relying on amount of data have been
captured and saved. no one in his mind will argue that movie with 1080 resolution on BD isn't have better picture
than the same movie with 720 on DVD.
the same rule apply to sound as well.

The 'rule' does not apply infinitely. Yes, there is still room for video to improve -- we have not reached the limit of human sensitivity there. The situation for audio is different.

in your case difference perhaps comes from sound processing. my guess your CD player do not deliver flat sound,
how it is originaly but during processing added some EQ coloration to the sound. most likely your Naim was preceded
Denon and you just used to it sound. kind of listening preference habit.

My guess is either mismatched output levels between the two players, or placebo. (I'm assuming he's playing the exact same version on both players, not two different masterings; I'm also assuming no DSP is turned on in the players.)

 

[0tto]

The 'rule' does not apply infinitely. Yes, there is still room for video to improve -- we have not reached the limit of human sensitivity there. The situation for audio is different.

hmm, how come? are you suggesting that quality of the sound in digital form do not depend on quantity
of information had been captured and saved into 0 and 1
if so, then all this race with lifting of the freq. celling and deepness of quantization nothing else but waste
of time and resources. 8bit and mp3 could handle quality just fine and gave a huge saving
and have you heard recording, which is absolutely identical to live sound? i haven't.
surround, from all audio formats, come closest to immitate live performance but still miles away from to be
identical. i guess there are still room not just for video but for audio sound improvement as well.

 

[ssully]

hmm, how come? are you suggesting that quality of the sound in digital form do not depend on quantity
of information had been captured and saved into 0 and 1
if so, then all this race with lifting of the freq. celling and deepness of quantization nothing else but waste
of time and resources. 8bit and mp3 could handle quality just fine and gave a huge saving
and have you heard recording, which is absolutely identical to live sound? i haven't.
surround, from all audio formats, come closest to immitate live performance but still miles away from to be
identical. i guess there are still room not just for video but for audio sound improvement as well.

How come? Science. Human hearing frequency band extends at most , 22-24kHz (and the vast majority of adults far less). Thus sample rates beyond 44.1khz are for overcoming technical obstacles in DACs and ADC, not for hearing per se. Even Bob Stuart of Meridian agrees that those obstacles (which are likely not even audible) are overcome by the time you reach a 60kHz sample rate. So beyond that it is truly pointless. 88.2kHz -- the convenient, first multiple of 44.1 -- is more than sufficient to address even theoretical concerns.

Similarly, 24 bits has real utility during recording and processing, but for home delivery formats, not so much. (Though most our AVRs are going to convert audio to 24 bits anyway, to perform DSP). 16 bits with dither and noise shaping already gives us a dynamic range over 110dB. Try finding CDs, SACDs, DVD-As, BluRays,as well as supremely quiet home listening environments, that can take advantage of that.

In short, more bits and more samples than 88/24 are not going to get you closer to live sound.

I did not say there is no room for audio improvement. I said the situation is different from video, where resolution is still an issue. My point is that the improvements are not going to come from the equivalent of increasing video resolution. Real, as opposed to snake-oil, improvement in home audio, will come from better digital room/speaker correction, better room treatment , better loudspeakers. Improvement of the product we buy comes from better mixing and mastering. Chasing higher bit depths and sample rates is ridiculous in this day and age; it is sheer marketing.