The 2011 Warner Japan SACD has Weidner’s 5.1 mix.
Steven Wilson Yes "Fragile" Super Deluxe Edition out in June with Dolby Atmos mix!
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Yes, it and the 2015 Steven Wilson Mixes are omitted from the new 2024 Blu-Ray.
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
Sorry, I should have said, "never been released on SACD *outside of Japan." Most of the Yes catalogue through Big Generator has been put out on stereo SACD featuring atrocious mastering by Isao Kikuchi (see: the High Vibration box set). All those 2011 Warner hybrid multichannel SACDs were essentially format-swaps of previous DVD-As (including Rumours, The Nightfly, and Machine Head).
inspclouseau
300 Club - QQ All-Star
it is an sacd.. I'll attach images in a bit. Tim Weidner 5.1 mix. A Warner music company disk, yup.. manu in Japan
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To be precise, Kikuchi seems to have mastered Yes albums twice.
The first time was circa the year 2000, for HDCD releases in minisleeve replicas. Two of those remasters, Tales and Relayer, when decoded, are still my go-to
listens for those albums. They sound excellent. That series included all of the 1970s album + Drama and 90125, and my memory is that for the rest of teh sereis, the mastering was 'OK' at best and 'not good' at worst. They got trashed on the usual audiophile sites for being compressed, but in fact, most of that 'compression' goes away if you decode the HDCD (because 'Peak Extend' was used). There is no obvious compression (waveform peaks) at all on the decoded Tales and Relayer. THe other slam was extrene re-EQ, which again I don't hear on those two albums (though his Yessongs certainly has a heck of lot of re-EQing)
Later it appears Kikuchi re-remastered for the High Vibration boxed set, which everyone seems to hate. I don't recall whether I or anyone ever verified this terrible mastering or not.
Yes, it is just otherwise pointless catering to SACD-philes.
himey
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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https://www.discogs.com/release/4277029-Yes-Fragile
edit
Didn't see the next page of comments before posting.
inspclouseau
300 Club - QQ All-Star
We bought this many years ago now. Brand new. Was just curious if anyone had BOTH physical cds. Probably not. But....I may purchase this new set for the SW 5.1
I think the old SACD 5.1 mix is really good, actually. But the Wilson mix from 2015 is definitely superior because he does so much in his mixes to get better separation and articulation in the tracks with EQ tricks. There is a reason why all his mixes sound the way they do and bring the sonic clarity that they do. He has a formula, and he sticks to it. And the 2015 release is, IMO, worthwhile still because it has the SW 5.1 mix (w/out America), the old 5.1 mix (w/ America), plus all the extras (see https://www.discogs.com/release/7680648-Yes-Fragile for specifics).
I jumped on the new release for the price point when it was at $57 or whatever and have only listened to the Atmos, which sounds great to me folded down into 5.1. I have not listened to the new 5.1 or most of the new stereo tracks. I would guess that the difference between the new ones and the 2015 mixes are minimal. Probably a tweak here and there and maybe some bass adjustment overall or something since he was fleshing out the Atmos mix anyway. I was hoping they would include the old mixes. I guess I understand why they didn't include the 2015 SW 5.1 since he made a new one, but the SACD 5.1 would be nice. I'm guessing there was just no room with the Atmos mix thrown on there, plus America is included this time.
I jumped on the new release for the price point when it was at $57 or whatever and have only listened to the Atmos, which sounds great to me folded down into 5.1. I have not listened to the new 5.1 or most of the new stereo tracks. I would guess that the difference between the new ones and the 2015 mixes are minimal. Probably a tweak here and there and maybe some bass adjustment overall or something since he was fleshing out the Atmos mix anyway. I was hoping they would include the old mixes. I guess I understand why they didn't include the 2015 SW 5.1 since he made a new one, but the SACD 5.1 would be nice. I'm guessing there was just no room with the Atmos mix thrown on there, plus America is included this time.
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
Again, this mix was done by Tim Weidner for the 2003 DVD-A. The 2011 SACD is a Japanese re-release. Referring to it as the "SACD 5.1 mix" is both inaccurate and confusing.
Well I'm piggybacking on the part of this thread that asked whether or not he should get this new mix in light of the fact that he has the SACD. I own the SACD as well, thus the "SACD 5.1 mix". I think it has been established since he posted his query that the SACD 5.1 is the same mix as the 2003 DVD-A and don't feel the need to refer to it as the "2003 DVD-A mix" or "2003 DVD-A/2011 SACD 5.1 mix". I don't think it's inaccurate or confusing to anybody who is following along.
But in case it is, they now have additional clarity if they read your post or mine or several of the ones prior.
If you can play ATMOS, yes you want this release.
If you are rolling 5.1, the SW mix is still superior (in my opinion ...) than the 2003 DVD-A/2011 SACD 5.1/not BluRay version.
If you are rolling 5.1, the SW mix is still superior (in my opinion ...) than the 2003 DVD-A/2011 SACD 5.1/not BluRay version.
inspclouseau
300 Club - QQ All-Star
Thank you. We are not Atmos here. But might pick it up anyway.... Was hoping for a DTS MS Steven Wilson 5.1 mix on this. Shame really, but as expected.... Dolby has pretty much. MOVED out ALL other formats to be included in releases now. The 'deals' are complete. Sickening~ But, as expected as well.....
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inspclouseau
300 Club - QQ All-Star
remove please
inspclouseau
300 Club - QQ All-Star
When I own the actual physical disk, I was not being inaccurate at all. It is indeed a SACD 5.1 and stereo disk . And I actually LOVE the stereo version on it. The 5.1 is 'ok'.
inspclouseau
300 Club - QQ All-Star
When I own the actual physical disk, I was not being inaccurate at all. It is indeed a SACD 5.1 and stereo disk . And I actually LOVE the stereo version on it. The 5.1 is 'ok'. Guess we should call it something 'else'
I don’t own the new set (yet) but I believe the 5.1 on it is encoded in DTS HD-MA not Dolby TrueHD; I know that was the case for the original 2015 Blu-ray release.
5.1 is rarely Dolby, no? It's almost always DTS or PCM.
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
It is indeed rare, but not nonexistent. The Sgt. Pepper box set's Blu-ray had Dolby TrueHD (and was 7.1, strangely). To my knowledge, Rhino has only used DTS-HD Master Audio for 4.0/5.1.
Opeth Pale Communion is Dolby True HD 5.1
I'm aware that these exist, it's just very rare and not generally something I would expect.
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