Listening to in Dolby Atmos Streaming, via Tidal/Apple/Amazon

[dobyblue]

Classic album, it never gets old.

Love this album, but this is a pretty unusual mix - listening to One More Try and the bass is completely isolated in the centre channel, along with vocals and some percussion. Like, nothing in the front L and R channels, the ones that typically have better output in the frequencies the bass guitar enjoys hitting. The centre is really loud too, Father Figure has some rhythm percussion and bass significantly louder than the front LR and rear channels.

You notice any of this?

 

[humprof]

I just learned about Brazilian jazz-pop Steely Dan fanboy--okay, that's neither a fair description of his talents nor his stature in the Brazilian music scene--Ed Motta from Jake Malooley's Expanding Dan Substack (not sure how much of this post is available to non-subscribers):
https://expandingdan.substack.com/p/ed-motta-interview-steely-dan-aor
His new album, Behind the Tea Chronicles, has a decent Atmos mix:

 

[AudiophileStyle]

ooof, I just listened to Leash and that's pretty jarring...hard to excuse the idea that the mixer's centre channel is properly calibrated when such a large change in volume compared to the rest of the program occurs. The stereo mix, awful as the mastering is, sounds nothing like this. I can't edit the full Atmos, but I've edited my 5.1 FLAC conversion of the core to drop that part by 3 dB.

Guess I'll have to check those other two now.

You can see the center channel for Leash peaks at roughly 3dB lower than the left and right for the entire track, including the solo near the end. it sounds totally fine on my 7.1.4 system as Mike's guitar enters the center channel at 2:35 into the track. It's louder than the near silence that is in the center channel for much of the track, but it's lower than the left and right by 3dB.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

Pearl VS sounds really good apart from some really intense centre channel levels on some tracks.

Daughter - an acoustic guitar track hits really loud toward the end very distracting.
Glorified G - some vocal delay effects are too loud in the mix in the centre channel.
Leash - a guitar solo towards the end rips your head off in the centre channel and should’ve been a bit lower in he mix or faded in

Daughter:

The guitar remains the same level throughout, but other instruments are reduced or stopped. You can see the overall level actually drop. I'm assuming you're talking about the guitar heard at roughly 3:25 through 4:40.

Glorified G:

The vocal sounds in the center channel are far less than half as loud (if we use 10dB as an audible measure of double perceived loudness by humans). You can see the center channel peaks at -14.9 dB. If looking at the waveform below that only covers the part of the tracks with center channel audio, you can see it remains far less than half as loud, or in other word the left and right are more than twice as loud as the vocals in the center channel, regardless of the peaks.

If you look at the very very end of the track, the center channel vocal still peaks at -14.9 dB and the left and right peak at -7.2 dB. The center is just about half as loud, at its very loudest point.

 

[sjcorne]

. The centre is really loud too, Father Figure has some rhythm percussion and bass significantly louder than the front LR and rear channels.

Yeah, I noticed the bass guitar is 100% in the center speaker on "Father Figure". Not my preference, but it sounded balanced with the other instruments? I also thought the lead vocals were a bit low on that track.

 

[dobyblue]

You can see the center channel for Leash peaks at roughly 3dB lower than the left and right for the entire track, including the solo near the end. it sounds totally fine on my 7.1.4 system as Mike's guitar enters the center channel at 2:35 into the track. It's louder than the near silence that is in the center channel for much of the track, but it's lower than the left and right by 3dB.

This is what one would hope to find, considering how much instrumentation is in the front left and rights compared to just the single guitar solo in the centre.

 

[dobyblue]

Yeah, I noticed the bass guitar is 100% in the center speaker on "Father Figure". Not my preference, but it sounded balanced with the other instruments? I also thought the lead vocals were a bit low on that track.

Agreed the vocals could use a boost but you're right the bass doesn't sound unbalanced in the overall mix.

These new Atmos mixers do make some unusual choices!

 

[sjcorne]

These new Atmos mixers do make some unusual choices!

This one's actually a Frank Filipetti mix

 

[dobyblue]

Listening to Vs it seems almost like two different people did the mixing, when I listen to Rats, W.M.A., Elderly Women and Crazy Mary, the mix is nice and wide/full and the EQ is pleasant and clear in the sibilants of the hi-hat/cymbals and consonants of Eddie's vocals; contrast with Daughter, Glorified, Leash, Rearviewmirror, everything sounds muffled, lower in overall volume and much smaller in the mixing space. W.M.A. is definitely the highlight for me, amazing to hear the not subtle differences that this mix has over the stereo mix having gone back to the multis. I would buy a Blu-ray just for this one alone.

This one's actually a Frank Filipetti mix

Wow that's surprising! I love the majority of Frank's mixes I'm familiar with and don't recall any of them having bass isolated so cleanly in the centre. He is usually no shy with isolating the vocals in the centre which I love (Scenes from an Italian Restaurant?). I much prefer his contributions to the Appetite for Destruction Blu-ray than Elliot's. I look forward to listening through the rest of the album more now though.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

Listening to Vs it seems almost like two different people did the mixing, when I listen to Rats, W.M.A., Elderly Women and Crazy Mary, the mix is nice and wide/full and the EQ is pleasant and clear in the sibilants of the hi-hat/cymbals and consonants of Eddie's vocals; contrast with Daughter, Glorified, Leash, Rearviewmirror, everything sounds muffled, lower in overall volume and much smaller in the mixing space. W.M.A. is definitely the highlight for me, amazing to hear the not subtle differences that this mix has over the stereo mix having gone back to the multis. I would buy a Blu-ray just for this one alone.

Vs was mixed for Atmos by Josh Evans and Nick Rives. They both work on the tracks together.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

This is what one would hope to find, considering how much instrumentation is in the front left and rights compared to just the single guitar solo in the centre.

What is it that you find jarring about it though?

 

[Mcallister]

Was hopeful NIN Pretty Hate Machine was going to show up in Atmos last week for its anniversary, obviously it didn’t, PHM may have burnt in the fire……

 

[dobyblue]

Was hopeful NIN Pretty Hate Machine was going to show up in Atmos last week for its anniversary, obviously it didn’t, PHM may have burnt in the fire……

I mean, Alan Moulder finished the 5.1 mix of The Fragile back in October 2012 and we still haven't heard it yet. I'm a huge fan of NIN in surround, it's been painful waiting, watching, hoping...Hesitation Marks would make for a wonderful surround disc.

I'd pee my gitch if we ever get PHM.

 

[dobyblue]

What is it that you find jarring about it though?

That it's louder than the rest of the program. You pointed to the levels of the left and right, but they're not a single instrument, they're multiple instruments combined so of course they should have a louder level than just the guitar solo. I use the Marantz app on the fly to quickly adjust channels, for example at night once the kids are sleeping I'll put the subs to -12dB and the centre to +4dB. Usually they're at 0dB for regular listening. Leash sounds better to me with the centre at -2.5dB in Atmos, but I wouldn't walk out during playback without it. Typically if I'm going to mixdown to stereo to get a better sounding album (from a dynamic range standpoint) than what we got from the approved stereo mix, I don't have to make individual channel adjustments for volume. The new Slowdive record mixed from Atmos to 2.0 sounds so good. Try doing that with Leash and see what happens at the guitar solo, it's...jarring.

I'm glad you enjoy the levels, but it's neither here nor there for me because I'll likely only listen to the tracks I've listed. Leash, like much of Pearl Jam's Atmos output, just sounds muffled to me and narrow. I'm sure you must notice a huge difference if you switch from Leash one minute in to W.M.A.? And I don't just mean because it's a little louder - it's actually a really good mix, one I would pay for. It's not surprising to hear two different people worked on the mix, and it's pretty clear they were not working together because then the mix would be coherent.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

That it's louder than the rest of the program. You pointed to the levels of the left and right, but they're not a single instrument, they're multiple instruments combined so of course they should have a louder level than just the guitar solo. I use the Marantz app on the fly to quickly adjust channels, for example at night once the kids are sleeping I'll put the subs to -12dB and the centre to +4dB. Usually they're at 0dB for regular listening. Leash sounds better to me with the centre at -2.5dB in Atmos, but I wouldn't walk out during playback without it. Typically if I'm going to mixdown to stereo to get a better sounding album (from a dynamic range standpoint) than what we got from the approved stereo mix, I don't have to make individual channel adjustments for volume. The new Slowdive record mixed from Atmos to 2.0 sounds so good. Try doing that with Leash and see what happens at the guitar solo, it's...jarring.

I'm glad you enjoy the levels, but it's neither here nor there for me because I'll likely only listen to the tracks I've listed. Leash, like much of Pearl Jam's Atmos output, just sounds muffled to me and narrow. I'm sure you must notice a huge difference if you switch from Leash one minute in to W.M.A.? And I don't just mean because it's a little louder - it's actually a really good mix, one I would pay for. It's not surprising to hear two different people worked on the mix, and it's pretty clear they were not working together because then the mix would be coherent.

They both worked together.

 

[dobyblue]

They both worked together.

not a change in hell they worked together uniformly throughout the tracks, unless we expect their hearing both rivals Rick Rubin

Feel free to offer an explanation why the mixes and levels vary so wildly between tracks given you have intimate knowledge of the sessions.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

Feel free to offer an explanation why the mixes and levels vary so wildly between tracks given you have intimate knowledge of the sessions.

Nah, not worth it. I'll just stick to the facts and enjoy it.

 

[MrSmithers]

Jamie Cullum - Twentysomething.... One of my first SACDs

Tidal - https://listen.tidal.com/album/322974338

Atmos mix by Richard Whittaker

 

[MrSmithers]

The Who - Quadrophenia

Tidal - https://tidal.com/browse/album/322908711

Wow, you wait long enough for one Who album in Atmos and then two come along at the same time!

Atmos mix by Richard Whittaker

 

[privateuniverse]

The Who - Quadrophenia

Tidal - https://tidal.com/browse/album/322908711

Wow, you wait long enough for one Who album in Atmos and then two come along at the same time!

Atmos mix by Richard Whittaker

I hope Entwistle is higher in the mix than he was in the 5.1!