(UHQCD format x MQA technology). Disc's-DAC's-Streamers and Tidal

[marpow]

This product wouldn’t work in your system. The DAC must be capable of doing MQA decoding/rendering and your E38 DAC doesn’t do that. However the E32 DAC does.

I’ve been on the lookout for MQA capable DAC’s myself recently (albeit for streaming MQA on Tidal and not playing MQA CD’s) and did some researcher beforehand. Looking at the MQA site will save you a lot of time compared to checking if different DAC’s has MQA capability. Very few do, and if you can’t find it on the MQA site it won’t have MQA support either I eventually found out. The 205 isn’t listed under playback devices since it’s no longer being made, but it can still be found mentioned on their site:

https://www.mqa.co.uk/newsroom/partners/oppo-announces-support-for-mqa
The MQA site it also a good read if you want to read up on what MQA is and how it works.

Thanks for that Mobster.
Someone told me about this MQA DAC, $350.00, not the best but the reviews I have read basically a real big bang for the buck.
https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/pre-box-s2-digital/

 

[davidjpoole]

If I want to hear the difference between MQA and regular CD playback from the same disc on my Oppo 205 is there a way to toggle it on and off?

 

[marpow]

I now have a new question, about ripping MQA discs.
If I rip an MQA disc, for lack of better wording, will the MQA layer be ripped also?
I ask because I know my little Panasonic ripper does not decode MQA and if you cannot decode MQA during rip then why bother? I think it is like taking a Hybrid SACD, ripping it without the SONORE decoder and all you end up with is a CD layer.
OR, is the MQA layer always in the CD and you just always need a decoder on playback?

 

[uffeolby]

If I want to hear the difference between MQA and regular CD playback from the same disc on my Oppo 205 is there a way to toggle it on and off?

Unfortunately not!

 

[marpow]

I am officially a MQA listener now. I now have a MQA CD Player. I own about 8 MQA discs from Japan.
My set up is the CD player>XLR Balanced out (2 stereo)>preamp>amp. Digital optical out also.
My experience so far, all stereo discs, sound quality is overall very good, low end bass is superb, sound stage is very good between speakers and reaching out to side walls very nicely, wide. My room is only 12' wide, so not hard to do. The mid range is also superb. The highs treble, are a little too high, but I don't have a lot of discs of great varity to compare.
Is it the best thing I have ever heard? Probably not, but with 8 discs it's too soon to tell.
So far I have not double dipped on any purchases, for instance The Police are on Pre Order now but I have the same in SHM SACD so I don't think the MQA will blow away what I already have.
My reason for spending money on a new thing, I just wanted to try something new, I have done this my entire audio life. Will there be gear and discs, that will be sitting unused in the future, that will be only me to find out. I see a lot of old gear on QQ that people wish they had or still had.
What I do now, is I am now able to listen to the completely unfolded MQA disc and certainly sounds better than a RBCD.
I would like to learn how to rip them retaining there fully MQA and play them back as a digital file through the MQA DAC. But I don't know how, unless it is just like a regular CD rip.

 

[marpow]

Listening now to this MQA CD, wow, now this one is super good.

 

[4-earredwonder]

And for NOT a lot of money, try out this smooth Jazz MQA~CD from EVOSOUND, Markie:

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Fourpla...of+fourplay+MQA&qid=1629746942&s=music&sr=1-1
First released in 1997, The Best Of Fourplay showcases the smooth jazz supergroup's signature style of indelible melodies, tasteful arrangements and addictive, toe-tapping grooves. Besides choice album cuts from Fourplay's Warner Bros repertoire, the 13-track compilation includes the bands's hit versions of Marvin Gaye's After The Dance', fronted by the silky-voiced El DeBarge, and the Isley Brothers 'Between The Sheets', featuring legendary soul singer, Chaka Khan. The new edition of the album includes the bonus track, 'The Closer I Get To You,' a duet between Patti Austin and Peabon Bryson. The album was remastered using hi-resolution digital transfers from the original analog master tapes. This will be available for the first time on MQA-CD. A smooth jazz supergroup originally comprising Bob James (keyboards), Lee Ritenour (guitar), Nathan East (bass) and Harvey Mason (drums), Fourplay was formed in 1990 and patented an immediately identifiable pop-jazz sound with their self-titled debut album in 1991. It topped the US jazz charts and went on to sell over a million copies. Since then, the long-running group, despite a couple of line-up changes, has maintained it's popularity and, to date, has released 14 albums, three of which went gold, and earned six Grammy nominations. MQA-CD plays back on all CD players. When a conventional CD player is connected to an MQA-enabled device, the CD will reveal the original master quality.

 

[Perp]

I would like to learn how to rip them retaining there fully MQA and play them back as a digital file through the MQA DAC. But I don't know how, unless it is just like a regular CD rip.

I’m going to have to guess, yes. The MQA flag is baked into the Redbook code within the disc. I don’t know but that just sounded technically delicious.

 

[marpow]

I’m going to have to guess, yes. The MQA flag is baked into the Redbook code within the disc. I don’t know but that just sounded technically delicious.

I have ripped them as a CD and they certainly playback as a CD 16/44.1.
I need to try again and the Luxman CD player has a download driver to play, then I can play the ripped disc through the software to the MQA DAC, I assume?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Isn't part of the deal with MQA that there is no way to rip the HR unfold? Its part of the copy protection scheme built into the hardware, similar to SACD.

 

[marpow]

Well, success, very happy now. The Luxman D-O3X has what is called Luxman Audio Player, it is a download from there site. From the PC there is a USB A to USB B connection between PC and Luxman.
Open the Luxman player and add files. So I added from my NAS the few MQA CD's that I had ripped, played back through the Luxman and to my happiness the blue MQA light came on and was reading at 352.8Khz. For the continued experiment I played back a RBCD rip and the Luxman read as 44.1 and MQA light did not come on.
Further I added a DSF (SACD) file and the Luxman read it as DSD 2.8224Mhz. Completed by playback of a Blu Ray rip at 96.0Khz.
This is all stereo of course and the Luxman goes beyond what I was hoping for.
I doubt that I will use the Luxman for anything other than MQA playback, as I love my JRiver/Exasound MCH combo, but nice to know I could make some playlists using the Luxman for all my stereo sources.
This is good info for others who like me are ripped file based. Exasound also has a external MQA enabled DAC stereo. But unfortunately Exasound does not have a MCH DAC that is MQA enabled, they do have a stereo DAC that is MQA enabled. It did not make sense to me as of this writing to have two Exasound DAC's sitting on top of each other.

Please, I am not saying anyone should or shouldn't do what I have done, I am just expressing my experience to members of QQ so that others may learn.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

When you get a chance, compare the standard CD layer to the unfolded MQA layer and see what differences you hear.

 

[Perp]

When you get a chance, compare the standard CD layer to the unfolded MQA layer and see what differences you hear.

Is that even possible with an MQA-CD?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Is that even possible with an MQA-CD?

Maybe not a direct A/B comparison. But I have to assume the CD (or a rip of it) can be played at redbook resolution.

 

[DuncanS]

Maybe not a direct A/B comparison. But I have to assume the CD (or a rip of it) can be played at redbook resolution.

Most of what I have read says non-MQA playback is actually less than 16-bits, more like 13. MQA is a lossy process, you do lose information, so strikes me that playback is more akin to the upsampling techniques that a few manufacturers use on mp3 to 'improve' the sound. I do not think it is the same as a true Master file, its a 'manipulated' Master.

I'm reading one of the AES MQA papers, and it is a very complicated process. From an engineering point of view I don't see what it achieves that can't be done better by a simple 24-bit FLAC.

 

[marpow]

When you get a chance, compare the standard CD layer to the unfolded MQA layer and see what differences you hear.

I did, see post #25.

When you get a chance, compare the standard CD layer to the unfolded MQA layer and see what differences you hear.

Yes, I can do that. One ripped MQA disc.
I play the ripped CD from JRiver out to my Exasound non MQA DAC.
The same ripped CD now played from the Luxman Audio Player and Luxman DAC.
Very easy.
I will do when I have time and let you know.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Most of what I have read says non-MQA playback is actually less than 16-bits, more like 13. MQA is a lossy process, you do lose information, so strikes me that playback is more akin to the upsampling techniques that a few manufacturers use on mp3 to 'improve' the sound. I do not think it is the same as a true Master file, its a 'manipulated' Master.

I'm reading one of the AES MQA papers, and it is a very complicated process. From an engineering point of view I don't see what it achieves that can't be done better by a simple 24-bit FLAC.

Dunc, there are things in the Universe science cannot comprehend.

Back on Terra Firma, MQA is One of THEM. HDCD which NO ONE seems to have negated promised 20 bit resolution .... but it shows up as 44.1/16 on my monitor whereas, MQA which boasts 24 bit resolution does indeed decode at 174.6 [or HIGHER]/24 bit!

Hmmm!

And of course the MQA discs I do own sound stellar.

And yes, 24 bit FLAC would be THE alternative, but as pertains to CD ..... it surely beats the pants off of plain vanilla 44.1/16 bit!

And, YES, even the Gnomes give it THE THUMBS UP

"DON'T GIVE ME FLAC, DUNC!"

 

[Bob Romano]

Questions:
If Tidal Masters is MQA based and you do not have an MQA decoder than you are really not hearing anything better than Tidal's non masters?

For the record, if you have TIDAL and are listening to it using their app, you are hearing the decoded first layer of MQA up to 96k. It should say MASTER in the play window. Unfortunately, there is no indication what resolution it is actually playing at.

 

[DuncanS]

Dunc, there are things in the Universe science cannot comprehend.

Back on Terra Firma, MQA is One of THEM. HDCD which NO ONE seems to have negated promised 20 bit resolution .... but it shows up as 44.1/16 on my monitor whereas, MQA which boasts 24 bit resolution does indeed decode at 174.6 [or HIGHER]/24 bit!

Hmmm!

And of course the MQA discs I do own sound stellar.

And yes, 24 bit FLAC would be THE alternative, but as pertains to CD ..... it surely beats the pants off of plain vanilla 44.1/16 bit!

Yer like why people like <expletive deleted> Garden Gnomes!

If people like the sound of MQA that is great, and I don't have a problem with that, but MQA (even off a CD) is not as you would hear from an unprocessed Master tape.

For Cassette, Vinyl, CD, BDA, 24-bit FLACs etc. the measured difference is obvious but the difference people hear is not as great as the measurements would indicate. The reason is a mixture of the way our ears and brain perceive sound, plus good old bias. I personally like the 'sound' of vinyl, but it is not Master quality, listen to a BDA then an LP and you notice a 'difference' but after a while you're just listening to the music (or ought to be!). MQA is technically a lossy process, and dithering, upsampling, and all the complicated techniques deployed will not change that. Maybe the better sound is that the Mastering Engineer is taking more 'care'.

HDCD decoders used the data stream on the CD to bury the additional information used to add 4-bits to the already 16-bits on the disc, and my Joni Mitchell HDCD do 'sound' better than my standard CDs did. I for one was upset at its demise.

I would say that MQA are very good at marketing.

 

[Owen Smith]

Dunc, there are things in the Universe science cannot comprehend.

HDCD which NO ONE seems to have negated promised 20 bit resolution ....

Rubbish, all things are explainable by science. In some cases (but this does not apply to MQA) it may be science that hasn't been discovered yet, but it is still science.

HDCD has 20 bit resolution if it is decoded properly. It dithers noise into the lowers bits of CD audio, in a way that can be decoded as extra bits of resolution. If you rip CDs with some ripping tools you get a 24/44.1 FLAC file which has 4 bits of zeros and 20 bits of resolution. dbPowerAmp will do it, or you can run an HDCD decoder manually over a 16/44.1 FLAC. Or you can have a HDCD capable player just play the disc, like an Oppo 9x or 10x (but not 20x) series player.