Steven Wilson Yes Close To The Edge in Dolby Atmos (out in March!)

[ssully]

Some are, some are not soooo good. It's all a matter of taste.

Hah, I get hackles-raised umbrage here every time I report my disappointment with Wilson mixes.

Seems his work is practically sacrosanct in some quarters.
But I can name four remixers right away whose work I consistently like better
Ellio Scheiner
Greg Penny
Stephen Taylor
Ken Scott

I'd love for any one of those, especially Taylor, to have a crack at Yes remixes.
(Or Eddy Offord, though god knows what Fripp-like revisionism he might feel like enforcing by now.)

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

Hah, I get hackles-raised umbrage here every time I report my disappointment with Wilson mixes.

Seems his work is practically sacrosanct in some quarters.
But I can name four remixers right away whose work I consistently like better
Ellio Scheiner
Greg Penny
Steven Taylor
Ken Scott

I'd love for any one of those, especially Taylor, to have a crack at Yes remixes.
(Or Eddy Offord, though god knows what Fripp-like revisionism he might feel like enforcing by now.)

I don't even think there is an issue with saying that some of his older stuff isn't very good. Part of learning is failure. Elliot Scheiner's older stuff (not even that old, I'm talking 00's) is also not very good, not to mention all the phase and LFE issues with many of his earlier 5.1 mixes. SW's mixes of the past 10 years have been nothing short of revelatory, and he's also managed to vastly improve on some of his older mixes as well. Anyways, him being a fantastic producer doesn't detract from the ability of others to produce excellent mixes as well. If anything, I want to see more excellent immersive audio producers, since one person can't hope to mix everything.

 

[JediJoker]

...Steven Taylor...

Surely you mean *Stephen (W) Tayler?

 

[srbjab]

Personally, I never thought Steven Wilson fully "cracked" the Yes albums in 5.1. To me they were somewhat inconsistent, with parts sounding immersive with other parts still sounding a bit front heavy and flat. There's just something about Yes music that is very dense, and I don't feel he was fully successful in really opening those recordings up. However, his more recent Atmos mixes of The Yes Album and Fragile were massive improvements in terms of immersion and clarity - undoubtedly due to the additional channels/speakers available to utilize as well as a decade of invaluable experience. I'm very hopeful that the upcoming remixes of CTTE will be as revelatory.

 

[ssully]

I don't even think there is an issue with saying that some of his older stuff isn't very good.

Ah, really? You wouldn't know that from reading the old reviews of them here. Gush, gush, gush....

Part of learning is failure. Elliot Scheiner's older stuff (not even that old, I'm talking 00's) is also not very good, not to mention all the phase and LFE issues with many of his earlier 5.1 mixes.

Highly overblown. Scheiner et al get the sound right, most importantly

SW's mixes of the past 10 years have been nothing short of revelatory,

And away we go....

His remixes of Fragile, CttE, Tales, Relayer revealed nothing to me. (I quite like his Yes Album remixes)
I know these albums like the back of my hand. Mostly what his remixes gave me was sense of being just misfires.

and he's also managed to vastly improve on some of his older mixes as well. Anyways, him being a fantastic producer doesn't detract from the ability of others to produce excellent mixes as well. If anything, I want to see more excellent immersive audio producers, since one person can't hope to mix everything.

His best mix in my collection is his own album, The Raven Who Refused to Sing.

How nice that he gets do-overs on others....

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

Ah, really? You wouldn't know that from reading the old reviews of them here. Gush, gush, gush....

Highly overblown. Scheiner et al get the sound right, most importantly

Disagree, but that's fine and it's a matter of taste. Scheiner's mixes in my opinion are super-hot and way too discrete. No immersion.

I can only go based on music I actually listen to. Greg Penny, hit and miss. Some mixes are fine and some not. Stephen W Tayler, I've only heard Marillion - Holidays in Eden and it is one of their worst remixes. Dynamics are all over the place, treble is too harsh, nothing sounds right.

And away we go....

His remixes of Fragile, CttE, Tales, Relayer revealed nothing to me. (I quite like his Yes Album remixes)
I know these albums like the back of my hand. Mostly what his remixes gave me was sense of being just misfires.

OK, I get that you don't like him, that's fine. I did say last ten years so neither Relayer nor Close to the Edge fall within that timeframe, and Tales is cutting it close. But fine, let's say 8 years to make you happy.

His best mix in my collection is his own album, The Raven Who Refused to Sing.

Curious, I find this to be one of his worst self-mixes.

How nice that he gets do-overs on others....

And who cares if he gets do-overs. 20 years ago almost no-one was making really great surround mixes, so I'm happy to hear the evolution of the medium.
By the way with the sheer volume of his output compared to all the others, (not to mention actually making and producing his own music), You could throw away 20% of his mixes and still come out on top. So yeah, I think there is a reason people like him around here. He's not a god but he is one of the best at what he does.

 

[H.A.L.]

It's all good in the face of stereo alternatives, right?

 

[stoopid]

It's all good in the face of stereo alternatives, right?

That's been my conclusion, especially in the past 15 years when the overlap in surround mixes and technology has been maximized. There's really no "bad" mixes anymore released by major labels/artists, aside from perhaps mixes that are lazier than others. But none of them are objectively bad. Even determining standouts becomes tough in such a crowded field of contenders.

 

[stoopid]

Anyways, him being a fantastic producer doesn't detract from the ability of others to produce excellent mixes as well. If anything, I want to see more excellent immersive audio producers, since one person can't hope to mix everything.

This is kinda reflective of the sports fan mentality being applied to everything (music, politics, my shoe choices, etc). You pick a team and die rooting for that team. Trying to convince someone their team sucks is pointless, they've already invested their heart and soul. The human condition is ... painful to witness.

It matters less in music mixes and choice in dining establishments. Matters significantly in politics and selective application of compassion/empathy.

 

[ssully]

Disagree, but that's fine and it's a matter of taste. Scheiner's mixes in my opinion are super-hot and way too discrete. No immersion.

I can only go based on music I actually listen to. Greg Penny, hit and miss. Some mixes are fine and some not. Stephen W Tayler, I've only heard Marillion - Holidays in Eden and it is one of their worst remixes. Dynamics are all over the place, treble is too harsh, nothing sounds right.

OK, I get that you don't like him, that's fine. I did say last ten years so neither Relayer nor Close to the Edge fall within that timeframe, and Tales is cutting it close. But fine, let's say 8 years to make you happy.

Curious, I find this to be one of his worst self-mixes.

A: THM: our tastes are very different

And who cares if he gets do-overs. 20 years ago almost no-one was making really great surround mixes, so I'm happy to hear the evolution of the medium.

B: His getting a do-over means none of those others get a shot at it.

By the way with the sheer volume of his output compared to all the others, (not to mention actually making and producing his own music), You could throw away 20% of his mixes and still come out on top. So yeah, I think there is a reason people like him around here. He's not a god but he is one of the best at what he does.

More quantity indicates there must be more quality?

How about this: maybe you need to throw away 80% of his mixes to leave 20% that are bangers?

tl;dr: See: A

 

[JulesRules]

Stephen W Tayler, I've only heard Marillion - Holidays in Eden and it is one of their worst remixes. Dynamics are all over the place, treble is too harsh, nothing sounds right.

Seems like more of a mastering than mix problem, though, especially considering that his other mixes have been received very well here (I couldn't possibly comment but he's currently dominating the polls).

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

Okay, I'll bite:
I didn't particularly like his remix of Marillion's 'Brave' or his 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' (Yes) remix. And his efforts on 'A' (Jethro Tull) were not as rewarding to me as some of the other Jethro Tull remixes. So, yeah, some are not so good in my ears. But like I said: it is a matter of taste and all very very subjective.

edit:
Oh, and his 2 ELP remixes are far from stellar. Rumors of outside interference (by Greg or Carl) or very much speculative: I take it on face value and judge those mixes by what I hear and conclude that I don't particularly like his Tarkus remix end his ELP (self titled) remix either.

To be fair, @adspink said that his Atmos mixes are very good, and none of the mixes you mentioned are Atmos mixes (which actually is an important distinction, as his mixes have dramatically improved in the last ten years).

 

[JimHansonDC]

Yeah Yeah Yeah. All this jibber jabber is fine. How much longer until March?

 

[H.A.L.]

Yeah Yeah Yeah. All this jibber jabber is fine. How much longer until March?

I'm close to the edge, myself. It's me b'day.

 

[SHB]

I'm close to the edge, myself. It's me b'day.

Mine is 2 days after yours. Hopefully I will get mine on your b'day.

 

[adspink]

To be fair, @adspink said that his Atmos mixes are very good, and none of the mixes you mentioned are Atmos mixes (which actually is an important distinction, as his mixes have dramatically improved in the last ten years).

Steven Wilson has certainly improved his surround mixing craft over the years, especially with the emergence of Atmos. But some of his early 5.1 mixes are outstanding. The 2009 5.1 mix of Lizard by King Crimson is one of the best ever and started me on the surround sound journey. (Plus the 5.1 mixes of his own music are great).

I listened to his 5.1 of Close to the Edge not that long ago and I enjoyed it. I couldn’t point to anything specific I wish he had done differently, but I also feel like Wilson’s recent mixes gel better in an intangible way than that disc. So I predict there will be subtle but important improvements in the new one. And of course, more options with the Atmos.

For example, the 2009 5.1 of King Crimson Red was enjoyable and had nothing wrong with it, but the recent 50th anniversary Atmos and 5.1 were superior. I hope (and predict) we’ll get the same with Close to the Edge.

 

[RuudMans]

To be fair, @adspink said that his Atmos mixes are very good, and none of the mixes you mentioned are Atmos mixes (which actually is an important distinction, as his mixes have dramatically improved in the last ten years).

I never claimed they were Atmos mixes, I was merely replying to the question which mixes I do not particularly like.

 

[srbjab]

Steven Wilson has certainly improved his surround mixing craft over the years, especially with the emergence of Atmos. But some of his early 5.1 mixes are outstanding. The 2009 5.1 mix of Lizard by King Crimson is one of the best ever and started me on the surround sound journey. (Plus the 5.1 mixes of his own music are great).

I listened to his 5.1 of Close to the Edge not that long ago and I enjoyed it. I couldn’t point to anything specific I wish he had done differently, but I also feel like Wilson’s recent mixes gel better in an intangible way than that disc. So I predict there will be subtle but important improvements in the new one. And of course, more options with the Atmos.

For example, the 2009 5.1 of King Crimson Red was enjoyable and had nothing wrong with it, but the recent 50th anniversary Atmos and 5.1 were superior. I hope (and predict) we’ll get the same with Close to the Edge.

Really hoping the same, mainly because I pre-ordered this title instead of waiting 6 months and getting a 40% discount like I did for The Yes Album and Fragile. I thought his earlier 5.1 mix of CTTE was OK, but not as good as some of his others, and definitely not as good as his recent Atmos mixes of Yes material.

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

I never claimed they were Atmos mixes, I was merely replying to the question which mixes I do not particularly like.

OK. The original comment you made was in reply to someone saying his Atmos mixes are so good, so that was where I took off from.

 

[sjcorne]

But some of his early 5.1 mixes are outstanding. The 2009 5.1 mix of Lizard by King Crimson is one of the best ever and started me on the surround sound journey.

Caravan's In The Land of Grey and Pink is another one that was done pretty early on (2010 or 2011?) and I still rate that in the upper quartile of all his 5.1 mixes.