RHINO QUADIO batch #6 - Speculation Extravaganza!

[par4ken]

Sony Japan and Quadio maybe but there's absolutely no way someone the calibre of Michael J. Dutton would use a "smiley face" EQ on anything, ever.

The DV releases sound brighter than the AF ones do. Some equalisation must have been applied. Unless AF used frowny face equalisation instead. I am not complaining about equalisation being applied unless it is overdone. Some complained about the Sonys and few about the Quadios. I think that they all sound great but the AF need a bit of bass and treble added on playback the others less or none at all.

 

[fredblue]

There are times when it is actually absolutely necessary.

maybe for some labels/engineers but i'd be absolutely amazed if MJD/DV used some tawdry smiley faced EQ preset on anything at all in their entire history!!

 

[fredblue]

The DV releases sound brighter than the AF ones do. Some equalisation must have been applied. Unless AF used frowny face equalisation instead. I am not complaining about equalisation being applied unless it is overdone. Some complained about the Sonys and few about the Quadios. I think that they all sound great but the AF need a bit of bass and treble added on playback the others less or none at all.

DV are of course bound to use EQ to some extent.

added brightness in and of itself wouldn't necessarily be a sign of smiley faced EQ being applied, however.

smiley face would imply boosted Bass and jacked up Treble and a scooped out midrange, i don't hear that on any DV Quads.

 

[par4ken]

DV are of course bound to use EQ to some extent.

added brightness in and of itself wouldn't necessarily be a sign of smiley faced EQ being applied, however.

smiley face would imply boosted Bass and jacked up Treble and a scooped out midrange, i don't hear that on any DV Quads.

The DV releases sound fine but so do the others. The very thought of a 1/3 octave graphic equalizer or of a parametric equaliser in the wrong hands could really mess up a mix. Good thing that Michael Dutton knows what he is doing. Simple smiley face equalisation does much less damage in the wrong hands and it can easily be corrected.

If you want to split hairs I find some of the quadios a bit bass heavy. The Sonys sound fine to me without bass and treble tinkering (flat playback).

In the past almost everyone used "smiley face" equalisation on playback to make up for losses in treble inherent with analogue record and playback systems. Bass boost helped to make up for intentional rolloff of bass on the LPs.

With CD that became less important. With digital recording and brick wall type mutilation of the sound I find a treble cut to be more useful. The audiophile idea that playback should always be flat doesn't hold water.

So play the AF discs like analogue sources of old with bass and treble boosted. Play the Sonys flat as the bass and treble have already been boosted. Play the Qudios flat unless your system can't handle the bass, then turn bass down a bit. Play the DV's flat or tweek bass and treble to your own taste.

I have never noticed "scooped out midrange" caused by boosted bass and treble on any of these releases. Our ears are more sensitive to midrange frequencies anyway.

 

[quicksrt]

And there are the folks who mistakenly believe that "flat transfer" means it was always done correctly!

 

[kap'n krunch]

yup. and we go back to the eternal quest of "what sounds like a flat transfer?" to which I think the closest thing is the First pressings on LP of whatever album we is talkin' bout...

Yes, what did the engineers and artist HEAR when they mixed it down?

It would be good to know what alums they used as a reference to base their best mixes to sound like...cause that is the lowdown of "The technology of the obvious"...hmm, let's take someone else's (best engineers) "10" land let's build upon that!

And THAT is why AI will NEVER take the place of a REAL mixing engineer!

spoken as a REAL SURROUND engineer, aaaaaand I am sure most members of this community know a good MCH mix when they hear it....

 

[quicksrt]

yup. and we go back to the eternal quest of "what sounds like a flat transfer?" to which I think the closest thing is the First pressings on LP of whatever album we is talkin' bout...

Yes, what did the engineers and artist HEAR when they mixed it down?

It would be good to know what alums they used as a reference to base their best mixes to sound like...cause that is the lowdown of "The technology of the obvious"...hmm, let's take someone else's (best engineers) "10" land let's build upon that!

And THAT is why AI will NEVER take the place of a REAL mixing engineer!

spoken as a REAL SURROUND engineer, aaaaaand I am sure most members of this community know a good MCH mix when they hear it....

The mastering process is absolutely essential and an art in it's own right, even if the mix is perfect. A perfect mix will in general not mean that no mastering EQ or other further processes are needed for a release.

 

[BILLION$BABY]

Exactly, was a hit album and had a true but minor hit single. and I never said I wanted Muscle of Love before the other essential unissued or reissued quad masters in the vault. I'd just like to see MoL come out in the series at some point is all.

The truth is the this Alice Cooper album is no more a dud than Stromringer is. They both were certified gold in the US (not bad for a dud), and maybe never reached platinum which was quite unusual for both artists in the prime years of the 70's.

Spectrum was an unissued quad mix. It no longer has the status, but still has some demand at retail I'd expect.

Not sure if you know how awards obtain Gold/Platinum Status. The Record Companies have to pay the RIAA like $500 to count sales for each album. You'll see that all the early to mid 70s Zep, Stones, Elton, Elvis, Pink Floyd, Beatles etc didnt go Platinum until the 1990s. The labels never bothered certifying them for 20-30 years after they achieved Gold Status. Gold Status up until Mid 1975 was for ONE MILLION DOLLARS in Sales....about 250,000 copies. In May 1975 it switched to 500,000 copies SHIPPED (Not sold). So there are plenty of 1970's titles like Alice etc that could have sold Millions of copies but since nobody is paying to get them counted they will stay at GOLD status indefinitely. Hope this helps. If anybody is interested I have about 4000 of the 10,000 Gold/Platinum awards Ive received since the 1980's from music industry sources on display at my Facebook page RIAA AWARD COLLECTORS. (Including Jack Douglas Gold Record for Muscle of Love)

 

[Victor Bisio]

Does anyone really think that Craig Anderson (for Rhino) and Gus Skinas (for AF) have discernable "signature" mastering styles that would make a Quadio reissue of Muscle of Love a compelling buy? In my opinion, both of these gentlemen have primary expertise in the areas of tape transfer and authoring (for different formats) and whatever mastering work they do is incidental to that, more from a "quality control" perspective than a taste one.

All of the AF SACD quad layers that Skinas was credited for involvement with sound to my tin ears to be pretty close to flat transfers (for better or worse, and I think some fall in to both categories) with minimal sonic intervention, and I wouldn't say that the Rhino Quadio releases thusfar (which I'm overjoyed to be getting) stray too much from that approach.

So having said that, if you're Rhino, given the niche appeal of the Quadio line, do you really want to take a chance on reissuing a quad mix that several thousand of your prospective buyers already own on SACD? Spectrum is one thing, given its status as a catalog evergreen and one of the great fusion albums of all time, and the fact that AF in its death throes clearly underestimated the demand for (and this is borne out by the prices it fetches on the secondary market), but a reissuing a dud album with no hit singles like Muscle of Love when there are dozens of other (better) choices seems like folly to me.

I'm only one guy - and I would hope that a major corporation doesn't base its decisions on what one person says on the internet - but if Warners has 50 quad mixes (and I hope it's 100, or 150) in the vault I would hope that they put out every single one of them before they make Muscle of Love (or the handful of other WB titles that AF did) release number 51.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Steve Hoffman involved with the remastering of those AF Quad discs? Or was it just the stereo layer?

 

[par4ken]

Not sure if you know how awards obtain Gold/Platinum Status. The Record Companies have to pay the RIAA like $500 to count sales for each album. You'll see that all the early to mid 70s Zep, Stones, Elton, Elvis, Pink Floyd, Beatles etc didnt go Platinum until the 1990s. The labels never bothered certifying them for 20-30 years after they achieved Gold Status. Gold Status up until Mid 1975 was for ONE MILLION DOLLARS in Sales....about 250,000 copies. In May 1975 it switched to 500,000 copies SHIPPED (Not sold). So there are plenty of 1970's titles like Alice etc that could have sold Millions of copies but since nobody is paying to get them counted they will stay at GOLD status indefinitely. Hope this helps. If anybody is interested I have about 4000 of the 10,000 Gold/Platinum awards Ive received since the 1980's from music industry sources on display at my Facebook page RIAA AWARD COLLECTORS. (Including Jack Douglas Gold Record for Muscle of Love)

Ladies and gentleman you are listening to a Solid Gold Million Dollar Weekend!

 

[quicksrt]

Not sure if you know how awards obtain Gold/Platinum Status. The Record Companies have to pay the RIAA like $500 to count sales for each album. You'll see that all the early to mid 70s Zep, Stones, Elton, Elvis, Pink Floyd, Beatles etc didnt go Platinum until the 1990s. The labels never bothered certifying them for 20-30 years after they achieved Gold Status. Gold Status up until Mid 1975 was for ONE MILLION DOLLARS in Sales....about 250,000 copies. In May 1975 it switched to 500,000 copies SHIPPED (Not sold). So there are plenty of 1970's titles like Alice etc that could have sold Millions of copies but since nobody is paying to get them counted they will stay at GOLD status indefinitely. Hope this helps. If anybody is interested I have about 4000 of the 10,000 Gold/Platinum awards Ive received since the 1980's from music industry sources on display at my Facebook page RIAA AWARD COLLECTORS. (Including Jack Douglas Gold Record for Muscle of Love)

So "Muscle of Love" could likely be in the platinum sales bracket, but not yet certified?

 

[BILLION$BABY]

So "Muscle of Love" could likely be in the platinum sales bracket, but not yet certified?

Yes. Im sure many titles that didnt go Gold in the 70's like everything after GOES TO HELL has sold enough copies by now to be certified Gold but nobody is gonna bother doing it. There is just no justification at the record company to spend the money. They would have to be promoting something to get them off their asses at this point.